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I don't fund them either...I wish a few times a year they picked
a bunch of needy families to give a ton of money to for
their utility bills esp in the Winters...then I would.
Evangelistic networks do rely on offerings to survive while any flourish some barely can stay on satelite. TV costs are often in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. TBN for example is huge and their budget is in the hundreds of millions worldwide. I don't have a handle on salaries , but
like any corporation the board decides . Many preachers live in virtual compounds as in the case of the more sucessful . FIne with me.
I have always looked at TBN on and off and one thing that stands out is the massive size of many of these church buildings.
If the purpose of the biblical tithe was for the poor, fatherless, widows, the Levites, and to save for the biblical Feasts, where did the teaching come from of a 10% tithe is now monetary and then any sort of special offering should be separate from the tithe.
Im all for giving to support and spread the gospel, but I think most offerings now a days is to pay all of the churches overhead and utilities and wonder if it is truly helping the poor, widows, orphans vs just paying the churches bills and being told to give more because it all belongs to God anyways.
Is it right to have a massive structure that can cost millions up to a hundreds million dollars and then rely on all the members to pay the mortgage for the building and if you want to speed up the payment, to tell hem to give even more?
Are you honestly saying that a community of faith can't have a place to meet? I mean, last time I checked, you need a place to congregate, have meetings, educate, and a host of other community-building activities.
A church does not just spontaneously spring into being. It costs money to do so. Further, churches are the base from which a lot of those charitable activities take place. In our church alone, we use our kitchen to make meals for the homeless, we use our classrooms to teach GED classes, we house homeless families in a converted basement, and so on. If these facilities did not exist, where would they sleep? How would we create meals in a cost-effective manner? How would we teach?
Are you honestly saying that a community of faith can't have a place to meet? I mean, last time I checked, you need a place to congregate, have meetings, educate, and a host of other community-building activities.
A church does not just spontaneously spring into being. It costs money to do so. Further, churches are the base from which a lot of those charitable activities take place. In our church alone, we use our kitchen to make meals for the homeless, we use our classrooms to teach GED classes, we house homeless families in a converted basement, and so on. If these facilities did not exist, where would they sleep? How would we create meals in a cost-effective manner? How would we teach?
I clearly stated im all for offerings to spread the gospel, but my main question is, is it fair to get these enormous buildings that can cost millions of dollars and expect your members which can come and go as they please to pay these huge bills for the building?
I went to a prosperity church a few times and it almost felt like extortion in there when it was time to give, with quotes of out of context scriptures on tithing that magically turn the definition of tithes into money now to make sure people are giving a mandatory 10%, or they are robbing God.
Im glad your church does all that you listed, but many churches sit empty until Sunday morning and maybe Wednesday night. Granted some of the mega churches may offer a Christian school on the property or a day care, but alot are paying big for something that gets minimal use and if not enough people give or dont like the style or preaching/worship, that building will be sold.
I have always looked at TBN on and off and one thing that stands out is the massive size of many of these church buildings.
If the purpose of the biblical tithe was for the poor, fatherless, widows, the Levites, and to save for the biblical Feasts, where did the teaching come from of a 10% tithe is now monetary and then any sort of special offering should be separate from the tithe.
Im all for giving to support and spread the gospel, but I think most offerings now a days is to pay all of the churches overhead and utilities and wonder if it is truly helping the poor, widows, orphans vs just paying the churches bills and being told to give more because it all belongs to God anyways.
Is it right to have a massive structure that can cost millions up to a hundreds million dollars and then rely on all the members to pay the mortgage for the building and if you want to speed up the payment, to tell hem to give even more?
Having a church building helps the church better serve the poor. I agree most churches spend too much on their selves. It is Biblical to pay those who make their living from the Gospel. I object to paying the pianoest ,organist, and choir director, unless they need the money.
So does cursing ministries make you a Christian----Galations 1:8-9.
Helping people makes you a Christian----Galations 6:10.
So does turning down the bum make you a Christian---2 Thessalonians 3:10.
Working to pay your bills makes you a Christian----3 John 2.
So does bills without risky long mortgages make you a Christian---1 Timothy 6.
Helping the real preacher of God live off the gospel will make you a Christian----1 Cor. 9:14.
So does modest money begging make you a Christian----1 Cor. 9:18.
Knocking and seeking to get wealth modestly makes you a Christian----Luke 12:15.
So does letting the work boss give you a raise only if your a Christian----Luke 3:14.
Never raising a family on poverty income will make you a Christian as well----1 Timothy 5:8.
Making a living without poverty income in the first place will make you a Christian---3 John 2.
Financial favortism to saints really makes you a Christian----Galations 6:10.
More income then you have expenses will make you a Christian----3 John 2.
Balanced application of all the above will make you a Christian----2 Timothy 2:15.
Wow that's great preaching but it will get you kicked out of pulpits for real today.
Hope something is said to attract the 100% bible believers together like a magnet ONLY !!
Amos 3:3 and Psalms 133:1 and Matthew 7:6 and Matthew 15:14 and John 17:21.
Interesting that Tithing makes you a Christian when Malachi was directed towards the priest and there was no such thing as a Christian back then. Mal 2 even confirms this as it continues into Mal 3.
Malachi 2
Corrupt Priests
2 “And now, O priests, this commandment is for you.
2 If you will not hear,
And if you will not take it to heart,
To give glory to My name,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“I will send a curse upon you,
And I will curse your blessings.
Yes, I have cursed them already,
Because you do not take it to heart.
3 “Behold, I will rebuke your descendants
And spread refuse on your faces,
The refuse of your solemn feasts;
And one will take you away with it.
4 Then you shall know that I have sent this commandment to you,
That My covenant with Levi may continue,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
5 “My covenant was with him, one of life and peace,
And I gave them to him that he might fear Me;
So he feared Me
And was reverent before My name.
6 The law of truth[a] was in his mouth,
And injustice was not found on his lips.
He walked with Me in peace and equity,
And turned many away from iniquity.
7 “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
And people should seek the law from his mouth;
For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
8 But you have departed from the way;
You have caused many to stumble at the law.
You have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
9 “Therefore I also have made you contemptible and base
Before all the people,
Because you have not kept My ways
But have shown partiality in the law.”
I have always looked at TBN on and off and one thing that stands out is the massive size of many of these church buildings.
If the purpose of the biblical tithe was for the poor, fatherless, widows, the Levites, and to save for the biblical Feasts, where did the teaching come from of a 10% tithe is now monetary and then any sort of special offering should be separate from the tithe.
Im all for giving to support and spread the gospel, but I think most offerings now a days is to pay all of the churches overhead and utilities and wonder if it is truly helping the poor, widows, orphans vs just paying the churches bills and being told to give more because it all belongs to God anyways.
Is it right to have a massive structure that can cost millions up to a hundreds million dollars and then rely on all the members to pay the mortgage for the building and if you want to speed up the payment, to tell hem to give even more?
I would suggest that the idea of the tithe is not the same as offerings given to the church. The tithe was indeed for the governmental system -- the priests. It did pay for things like the poor, widows, etc. It is not the same as Christians taking an offering nowadays. We take offerings nowadays to further the Gospel -- including outreach, and good works like helping the poor. We also can use some of it for creature comforts---such as paying the propane bill to heat our church on a day when it's 10 below zero outside.
But...f the people want to put up a massive structure, why not let them? I don't care if you build a huge house, why should you care if the people in my church wish to put up a huge building?
Having said that, we don't have a huge building. It seats maybe 120. Nor would we build a massive building without the buy-in from the people in the church. They would need to approve it.
Having said that, I agree that a church's focus should not be on facilities and other inward-focused things. It should be on out-ward focused things.
I don't care if you build a huge house, why should you care if the people in my church wish to put up a huge building?
You don't need either one of them, but it is easier to pay the mortgage with more workers.
I know several families who have twelve children and they live in a three bedroom house?
Everybody paid tithes even the Levi people living off tithes.
Book of Hebrews 13 I believe says Abraham paid tithes while receiving tithe income from the people.
God with the Hebrew name there mentioned for paying tithes while receiving tithe income from the people also.
Only thing expiring in tithing today is 10% off animals or nonmonetary items as we know today.
Only thing expiring in tithing today is a interest charge law for missing your tithes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Interesting that Tithing makes you a Christian when Malachi was directed towards the priest and there was no such thing as a Christian back then. Mal 2 even confirms this as it continues into Mal 3.
Malachi 2
Corrupt Priests
2 “And now, O priests, this commandment is for you.
2 If you will not hear,
And if you will not take it to heart,
To give glory to My name,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“I will send a curse upon you,
And I will curse your blessings.
Yes, I have cursed them already,
Because you do not take it to heart.
3 “Behold, I will rebuke your descendants
And spread refuse on your faces,
The refuse of your solemn feasts;
And one will take you away with it.
4 Then you shall know that I have sent this commandment to you,
That My covenant with Levi may continue,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
5 “My covenant was with him, one of life and peace,
And I gave them to him that he might fear Me;
So he feared Me
And was reverent before My name.
6 The law of truth[a] was in his mouth,
And injustice was not found on his lips.
He walked with Me in peace and equity,
And turned many away from iniquity.
7 “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
And people should seek the law from his mouth;
For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
8 But you have departed from the way;
You have caused many to stumble at the law.
You have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
9 “Therefore I also have made you contemptible and base
Before all the people,
Because you have not kept My ways
But have shown partiality in the law.”
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About God And Money As A Christian
