Jesus days after the Resurrection...What did he do in those 40 days??? (church, believe)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We are not under the Mosaic Law. We are not under the rituals and restrictions that the Mosaic Law imposed on Israel. The church-age believer, having been united to Jesus, having been made a part of the body of Christ has died to the law and been released from it. Paul is very clear on this. (Romans 7:4-6; Gal. 3:23-25)
Mark 7:18-23 is pertinent to the issue of ritual uncleanness which includes the issue of 'unclean food.' In fact, the issue of clean and unclean food is addressed in Acts 10:9-16, 11:5-10; Romans 14:13-23; 1 Corinthians 8:1-13.
The matter of whether certain foods could be eaten or should be refrained from was an issue that came up in the Pauline mission churches. Paul made it clear that Christians are free to eat all foods, including meat which had been sacrificed to idols, because nothing is unclean. Paul's only caution was that those to whom he wrote should be careful with their liberty not to eat something in the presence of someone who doesn't know that it is okay to eat it.
No food is ceremonially unclean for a Christian. The issue dealing with ceremonial cleanliness involved Israel, not the church.
Christianity did not exist until the first century. The church-age began on the day of Pentecost, 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus. The first Christians were not Gentiles who converted to Judaism. The first Christians were Jews who believed that Jesus was the Messiah.
Following God's commands is not bondage, and I never said that it was. But you are putting yourself in bondage by adhering to commands which were given to Israel but which never were intended for the church.
Paul was concerned about the Galatians who wanted to enslave themselves to the Jewish days, months and seasons, and years. Things which Paul called weak and worthless elemental things.
Gal. 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10] You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11] I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
If you want to fulfill the law, you don't do it by observing the feast days of Israel, by refraining from eating certain foods, etc. You do it by obeying the command to love God and to love your neighbor.
Gal. 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Christians don't have to observe the Saturday Sabbath or the other days, months and years that Israel observed, nor are any foods ceremonially unclean for the Christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Not saying we are under the Mosaic law, im saying much of the commandments are still valid (Commands we can actually keep that doesn't require a temple or that can still be kept), but we are saying they are all abolished.
Mark 7 & Matthew 15 is about not washing your hands before you eat cant defile you and make you unclean, it is not saying to cancel out what God commanded. If Jesus was saying that, he would be teaching others to sin and is not the Messiah. Acts 10 in context is about not referring to the Gentiles unclean, not a cancellation of the dietary laws. Romans 14 is about fasting and choosing which day to fast and not judging the other person, not about where unclean food is now clean or not. 1 Cor 8 is about food sacrificed to idols, not whether or not it was now okay to eat unclean foods. Why would God tell his people in the OT not to eat certain foods as they are unclean and not meant to be food, then in the NT, tell Christians who are supposed to be his people, never mind, eat what you please whether its a roach,rat, or snake, everything I have commanded in the past is now null and void. Context is the key and you took all of those verses out of context to reach that conclusion.
In regards to:
"The first Christians were not Gentiles who converted to Judaism. ", Acts 15:21 says differently.
In regards to:
"Paul was concerned about the Galatians who wanted to enslave themselves to the Jewish days, months and seasons, and years. Things which Paul called weak and worthless elemental things."
Gal. 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10] You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11] I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Its the same situation in Galatians, where is is telling them (new believers..that were former Pagans) not to try go go back to the things they were doing when they were pagans. He is not telling them not to listen to the Jews. The main issues with the Jews back then was the meats sacririced to idols and the circumcision issue and there is no command stating one must be circumcised to be saved, other wise women would be screwed.
Galatians 4:9-11 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
Only a unbeliever/former Pagan would not have known God, so they cant turn back to something they never knew(the Torah), so its clear they are new converts as well, trying to turn back to the stuff they were doing as pagans that Paul is addressing and Paul IS NOT referring to believers trying to follow the Torah, because that is all they had back then, seeing the NT wasnt even written for another couple hundred years from that point.
Everything from the NT is a OT practice. There was no NT around when the letter to the Galatians was written, so everything Paul is talking about and preaching from is the OT.
While you claim that you are not saying that we are under the Mosaic law you still try to impose on the church aspects of the Mosaic law such as the food restrictions and Sabbath keeping, both of which belonged to Israel and not to the church. The issues of cleanliness and uncleanliness had to do with ceremonial uncleanness and were things which Israel had to observe. The church does not have to observe those things. That includes the issue of food. Despite your attempts to twist the meaning of the verses I already posted, they do in fact show that what you eat is not an issue.
Referring specifically to Acts 10:9-16, no matter how hard you try to fight against it, there is no denying the fact that in a vision in which Peter was shown all kinds of four footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air and then told to eat them that Peter was being shown that the food restrictions that had been imposed on Israel had lifted. Peter's reaction when having been told to eat was that he would never eat those things because he had never eaten anything unholy and unclean. In respond to Peter's resistance to the command a voice in the vision told him to no longer consider unholy what God has cleansed. The vision given to Peter was to prepare him to witness to Cornelius and his household who were all Gentiles. Gentiles had never been under the Jewish food restrictions, and now Peter had been told that those Jewish food restrictions regarding clean and unclean food were gone.
By avoiding certain foods for religious reasons you place yourself in bondage to that religion. The food restrictions belonged to Judaism. Not to Christianity. If you, out of ignorance, or out of stubborn refusal to acknowledge what the New Testament Scriptures plainly state choose to avoid certain foods, that's your choice. As for me, I'll enjoy my freedom to eat whatever I choose to eat.
Regarding the Galatians, when they became Christians they left behind their pagan customs but then began to subject themselves to the customs of Judaism. They were under pressure by the Judaizers to observe not only the Jewish days, months, seasons and years which Paul said were weak and worthless elemental things, but they were also starting to receive circumcision and therefore subjecting themselves to a yoke of slavery (Gal. 5:1-4). Just as the Galatians were beginning to subject themselves to the Jewish custom of circumcision, they were also starting to observe the Jewish days, months and seasons (Gal. 4:9-11). Paul said to the Galatians that subjecting themselves to circumcision, and to the Jewish days, seasons and years was subjecting themselves to slavery. To make it clear, you cannot claim that in Gal. 4:10 Paul was referring to anything other than the Jewish days, months, seasons and years when in Gal. 5:1-4 Paul very clearly said that for the Galatians to start receiving the Jewish custom of circumcision was to subject themselves to a yoke of slavery. Paul said that all of those things were weak and worthless elemental things.
Acts 15:21 does not say or imply that the first Christians were Gentiles who converted to Judaism. As I already stated, and as the book of Acts plainly shows if you've ever actually read it, the first Christians were Jews, not Gentiles who converted to Judaism. Judaism is not Christianity. Christianity belongs to the church which is the body of believers in Christ Jesus. When Jesus said that He would build His church (Matthew 16:18) the church did not yet exist. It was a future event that began to be fulfilled on the day of Pentecost 50 days after His resurrection. The first Christians, that is, the first church-age believers were the apostles and the others who received the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit as recorded in Acts 2:1-4.
In church yesterday, they were saying in the week after the cross we should be following in Jesus examples.
So after the Messiah rose from the grave, he was still on the earth for 40 days, and many claim they are following Jesus teachings and examples, so let pose some examples.
In the 40 days after he rose:
Where in scriptures did Jesus abolish all the laws of God?
Where did Jesus say the Sabbath is now abolished in favor of Sunday?
Where did Jesus go around starting up Sunday churches?
Where did Jesus say Passover and Unleavened Bread will replaced with Communion/The Lords Supper?
Where did Jesus say to make sure you take up a collection on Sunday morning and make sure you call it a tithe?
Where did Jesus say a tithe is now money?
Where did Jesus say to remember his death with pagan fertility symbols?
Where did Jesus say to remember his birth with pagan customs and to celebrate it on the same days the pagans will celebrate their idols birthday?
Where did Jesus say is is now okay to eat unclean foods?
Where did Jesus say he is now a Christian and starting a new religion called Christianity?
More Jewish proselytizing in the Christianity forum. What's new?
Mike answered the questions using the scriptures. Nuff said.
Im not a Jew. Mike answered the question with scriptures out of context. Im asking valid questions as for why we do what we do and sadly the answer is not from the bible but from the RCC mostly and then branches from there.
The sad truth is most of what we do is not from what Jesus commanded, but from a man made religion and worse is we took alot of former pagan aspects and just rebadged them.
You can find zero examples in the entire bible of God people eating unclean foods, but Mike found scriptures out of context to butcher home a conclusion and the same with the Holy Days as well that were replaced with man made Holiday. I can most many scriptures as well to to back my argument.
Im not a Jew. Mike answered the question with scriptures out of context. Im asking valid questions as for why we do what we do and sadly the answer is not from the bible but from the RCC mostly and then branches from there.
The sad truth is most of what we do is not from what Jesus commanded, but from a man made religion and worse is we took alot of former pagan aspects and just rebadged them.
You can find zero examples in the entire bible of God people eating unclean foods, but Mike found scriptures out of context to butcher home a conclusion and the same with the Holy Days as well that were replaced with man made Holiday. I can most many scriptures as well to to back my argument.
Not out of context at all. But making that claim is a convenient excuse for you to use in order to justify ignoring the plain statements in the New Testament that the food restrictions that were imposed on Israel as a part of Judaism do not apply to the church.
Listen. You enslave yourself to commands that don't apply to the church since that's what you want to do. I on the other hand will eat whatever I dang well choose to eat knowing that God couldn't care less.
Not out of context at all. But making that claim is a convenient excuse for you to use in order to justify ignoring the plain statements in the New Testament that the food restrictions that were imposed on Israel as a part of Judaism do not apply to the church.
Listen. You enslave yourself to commands that don't apply to the church since that's what you want to do. I on the other hand will eat whatever I dang well choose to eat knowing that God couldn't care less.
I'm done with this thread.
Peace out, because you know you cant prove one scripture where Jesus states a new religion called Christianity will have its own separate commands separate from what God has commanded up to that point. there is now THE CHURCH commands s ISRAEL commands, there is just one set of commands of God in the Torah and that were repeated in the NT. The animals sacrificial part was fulfilled and replaced with the blood of Christ and anything else dealing with a temple etc isnt valid, because they can possibly be done.
To say that God from the beginning has said keep my commandments and then would would say , lets put that on pause for 200yrs so the church can do as they please and then when my son returns,we will all keep the commandments again is insane, but that is what dispensation is and waiting for thisd magical biblical pre trib rapture.
Peace out, because you know you cant prove one scripture where Jesus states a new religion called Christianity will have its own separate commands separate from what God has commanded up to that point. there is now THE CHURCH commands s ISRAEL commands, there is just one set of commands of God in the Torah and that were repeated in the NT. The animals sacrificial part was fulfilled and replaced with the blood of Christ and anything else dealing with a temple etc isnt valid, because they can possibly be done.
To say that God from the beginning has said keep my commandments and then would would say , lets put that on pause for 200yrs so the church can do as they please and then when my son returns,we will all keep the commandments again is insane, but that is what dispensation is and waiting for thisd magical biblical pre trib rapture.
Gee, why don't you double dare me, and then I'll have to prove it. Well, I will anyway. I'll give you two commands for the church which were not given to Israel.
1.) At the last Passover meal that Jesus ate before being arrested He instituted the Last Supper in which bread and wine were to be taken in remembrance of Him (Matt. 26:26-29; 1 Cor. 11:23-26).
2.) The believer's (Christian) water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. A ritual in which the believer is symbolically identified with Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection (Acts 2:38).
As for dispensationalism which you apparently reject, the Greek word translated as 'dispensation' is οἰκονομίαν - oikonomian, and means 'stewardship, administration, management'. It is found in Eph. 1:10, 3:2 and 1 Cor. 9:17. In Eph. 3:2 Paul refers to the dispensation or stewardship of God's grace which was not made known to past generations, but which has now been made known to the sons of men. The church-age is a new dispensation or stewardship that began on the day of Pentecost 50 days after Jesus was resurrected and is distinguished from the dispensation of the Jews - the age of Israel. And one of the differences between Israel and the church is that the church is not under the food restrictions which you erroneously think you have to observe. And you have already been shown the passages which prove this, but you refuse to accept what they say and claim that they are taken out of context.
Gee, why don't you double dare me, and then I'll have to prove it. Well, I will anyway. I'll give you two commands for the church which were not given to Israel.
1.) At the last Passover meal that Jesus ate before being arrested He instituted the Last Supper in which bread and wine were to be taken in remembrance of Him (Matt. 26:26-29; 1 Cor. 11:23-26).
2.) The believer's (Christian) water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. A ritual in which the believer is symbolically identified with Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection (Acts 2:38).
As for dispensationalism which you apparently reject, the Greek word translated as 'dispensation' is οἰκονομίαν - oikonomian, and means 'stewardship, administration, management'. It is found in Eph. 1:10, 3:2 and 1 Cor. 9:17. In Eph. 3:2 Paul refers to the dispensation or stewardship of God's grace which was not made known to past generations, but which has now been made known to the sons of men. The church-age is a new dispensation or stewardship that began on the day of Pentecost 50 days after Jesus was resurrected and is distinguished from the dispensation of the Jews - the age of Israel. And one of the differences between Israel and the church is that the church is not under the food restrictions which you erroneously think you have to observe. And you have already been shown the passages which prove this, but you refuse to accept what they say and claim that they are taken out of context.
Now, you've taken up my time long enough.
Jesus was saying to remember him with Bread and Wine at Passover, not Sunday morning at the Lord Supper.
These verses are used all the time to say Jesus canceled the dietary laws.
Mark 7:17-19
17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”
and
Matthew 15:16-20
16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”
-The whole issue in both these parallel chapters were the Pharisees were accusing them of eating with unwashed hands.
Matthew 15:2 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
Mark 7:5
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?”
-Jesus then went on to challenge them as to why do they put aside the commands of God to follow their traditions. So it would make no sense for Jesus to tell them about stop putting aside the commands of God and following the traditions of men and then turn right around and tell them it is now okay to put aside the commands of God and you can now break the dietary laws. The issue was about eating with unwashed hands, not dietary laws debate.
-Jesus no where says in either of those 2 chapters, you now have a free ticket to eat unclean foods now and there was not even any debate on clean vs unclean foods in those chapters.
-Mathew 15 and Mark 7:19 make it very clear that eating with unwashed hands doesn't defile you or make anyone unclean, so those verses CANT be used to say Jesus said we cant eat whatever we want.
Acts 10:14
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
So Peter here, a man who walked with Jesus said he has never eaten anything unclean and this is after Jesus Death. Peter of all people would have known about any sort of food restrictions cancellations, so the fact that he questioned unclean foods and he has never had any, shows they were still keeping the dietary laws and they were still valid.
Cols 2:16 is usually taken out of context too. Paul is actually telling the people in Colossians to actually not let anyone judge them for actually Keeping Gods Sabbath and the feats days since they were living in a pagan culture. They kept Gods commands and Paul said dont tell anyone be the judge of you for keeping them.
Romans 14, another chapter taken out of context is talking about not judging one another and their issue is about fasting and about eating meat sacrificed to idols. There is not even a debate about the dietary laws in that Chapter either
1 Timothy 4:1-5
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Some will cite verses 4 and 5 as proof that anything you might eat is sanctified by prayer. However the context is found in verse 3: "... meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving ...." Unclean animals were not created to be eaten by man, there is no way that God can ever sanctify something He explicitly condemns as an abomination in Lev. 11.
Something cant be unclean for 4000 yrs and the next day when Jesus dies on the cross, it is all of a sudden clean.
Would you eat a rat ?
Would you eat a tarantula spider?
Would you eat a rattle snake?
Would you eat a possum?
Would you eat a roach?
Would you eat a racoon?
Theses are all listed as unclean and no amount of prayer can make them clean, just like all other listed unclean foods.
Reading from the front of the chapter to get the message in its context helps. Anything else you list about meats , is in reference about meats sacrificed to idols. there was no debate about what was clean or unclean, they all knew what was considered to be food by God.
Correct Baptism would be something new, because Jesus wasn't around before that time, so everyone before him couldnt get baptized in the name of a man that didn't exist yet.
Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Proof there is no church vs Israel...all who believe in Christ are one and follow the same commands and are spiritual Israel. This is why scriptures says we are grafted into Israel when we are saved and not the other way around.
Christians don't have to observe the Saturday Sabbath or the other days, months and years that Israel observed, nor are any foods ceremonially unclean for the Christian.
So, what ARE Christians required to do other than to sit on their lazy backsides and look smug? That is a serious question, by the way.
So, what ARE Christians required to do other than to sit on their lazy backsides and look smug? That is a serious question, by the way.
What is required is too look back as smugly as possible and say, thankyou for the ,,?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
