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Old 05-16-2017, 05:58 AM
 
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Moderator cut: about this thread

This is the Christianity forum, a part of the Religion forums here. When one posts in this or in the R&S forums it is assumed he is asking for a religious discussion.
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:12 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StilltheSame View Post
The fact that clotting doesn't occur prior to that is incredible. That cannot just be random.
Random, no. Trail and error, probably yes. Judaism probably used 8 days in relation to the workweek+the sabbath+a day. We are in the wrong forum to discuss the Mishna and the included commentaries. Islam subtracted a day and use 7 days as their basis.
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Circumcision has nothing to do with salvation, not even for the Jew...
That was my point.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:44 PM
 
435 posts, read 250,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StilltheSame View Post
The fact that clotting doesn't occur prior to that is incredible. That cannot just be random.
Yes, it seems God knew the exact day when it was best to circumcise & told man. What are the chances that these ancient men would have discovered that on their own? Moderator cut: delete

Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-16-2017 at 03:31 PM.. Reason: That would start an off topic debate on religion and the bible.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Christianity deleted it in the NT






No Pruzhany, they did not, Christians who are unaware or lawless may have wanted to do away with it, but the New Testament does not do away with circumcision.




Acts 16


Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, so he took him and circumcised him on account of the Jews in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.


Jesus came saying that anyone who kept the laws of Moses to also teach others to keep the laws of Moses would be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, he also instructs us that we fall under the authority of the priests in Judaism but of course, the priests in Judaism would not have made us jump through hoops.


Christians have it in their head that if we are talking about circumcision, they have it in their head that everyone who gets circumcised does it to be saved and so it must be evil. There is no in between with these people.


Jews did not stop circumcising and everything Paul said has been perverted to make him look lawless as if he was going about teaching Jews not to keep the laws of Moses when he never did this, Christians do this.




Acts 21 ~~ OUT RIGHT LIES TOLD AGAINST PAUL, people who love to love a lie will tell the same lie.


20When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.


If Jesus or Paul or any of the disciples came teaching Jews against the laws of Moses then they are worthless, lawless, false prophets who deserved death.


We are also informed that a great falling away from Torah would occur as it obviously has.

The Man of Sin ~ The lawless times to come.


1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:34 PM
 
435 posts, read 250,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
Yes, it seems God knew the exact day when it was best to circumcise & told man. What are the chances that these ancient men would have discovered that on their own? Moderator cut: delete
To elaborate on that last sentence of mine, if it's okay, as i'm still trying to figure out what's acceptable to post in my own thread:

Is a comic book going to tell you thousands of years ago to do something on a specific day that science has finally figured out is the ideal day to have it done, namely circumcision on the 8th day? What are the chances that people back then would get the idea to chop off this particular body part, of all the choices of body parts for chopping they could have made, let alone choose any part for chopping, & that they would choose the exactly most ideal day when to do it? Was it just a lucky guess? What are the odds of that, one in a million, billion or a trillion?

Who but an all knowing God would tell people to do something so apparently crazy that is actually brilliant?

Brilliant because it was the ideal day to do it & for all the benefits it provides.
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,923,595 times
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The ancients were not as ignorant asy you suppose and nothing in your op can not be explained by observation. This reminds me of similar observation by people trying to "prove" the inspiration of Qu'ran and Haditha when they messed up by reporting that on a certwin day during pregnancy The angel in charge of the development of the child (as I recalled) asked what sex the child should be made. As it happens at that time in pregnance the first discernable changes toward development of sex characteristics occurs, but we all know that sex is determined ad conception, not at a later time.

Just one of the notable failures I have run into along those lines.
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,038,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
That was my point.
I meant that circumcision is a sign of the covenant between G-d and Israel...It never had anything to do with salvation...
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,164 posts, read 10,455,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I meant that circumcision is a sign of the covenant between G-d and Israel...It never had anything to do with salvation...
I agree.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:36 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,731,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
Who but an all knowing God would tell people to do something so apparently crazy that is actually brilliant? Science has discovered various benefits to the procedure. The 8th day is the most perfect to have it done.



Apologetics Press - Biblical Accuracy and Circumcision on the 8th Day
Well, it looks to me like it was a happy accident - that's if you accept he science here. No doubt if there was science that said it had deleterious effects, that would be dismissed as mere human opinion.

But it strikes me that it is odd that if it was such a briliant idea to not have foreskins, that God made us with them - just so we could cut them off.

I have to say, by the way, that his is he first hint I ever heard that foreskin removal somehow benefitted mankind. Human advances in thought and technology don't seem to have been adversely affected by no having a lopped winkie. And if it's so damn' wonderful, how come Jesus in he teatime chats with Paul in heaven didn't tell him to drop his objections to circumcision?

No, I think what you got here is fishing around for science in the Bible - anything that looks like it fits will do, so long as you don't think it through.
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