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Old 07-18-2017, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,918,865 times
Reputation: 1874

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe you should try to comprehend what "the land of the living" means in Hebrew...It is an idiom...


Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 53



8 From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them.

Rashi's Commentary:

From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken: The prophet reports and says that the heathens (nations [mss., K’li Paz]) will say this at the end of days, when they see that he was taken from the imprisonment that he was imprisoned in their hands and from the judgment of torments that he suffered until now.

and his generation: The years that passed over him.

who shall tell?: The tribulations that befell him, for from the beginning, he was cut off and exiled from the land of the living that is the land of Israel for because of the transgression of my people, this plague came to the righteous among them.

Being cut off from the land of the living, you automatically assume it means death, which it doesn't...
You REALLY have to work hard to make it come out the way you want it to, don't you.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,918,865 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
No, lawlessness in the biblical sense means without Torah...
If you say so, but your accusations carry the implication of actively hurting community and you know it. You are being duplicitous and you know it. You lack the principle of dealing honestly. THAT deception, among others.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:26 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,440,532 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe you should try to comprehend what "the land of the living" means in Hebrew...It is an idiom...


Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 53



8 From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them.

Rashi's Commentary:

From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken: The prophet reports and says that the heathens (nations [mss., K’li Paz]) will say this at the end of days, when they see that he was taken from the imprisonment that he was imprisoned in their hands and from the judgment of torments that he suffered until now.

and his generation: The years that passed over him.

who shall tell?: The tribulations that befell him, for from the beginning, he was cut off and exiled from the land of the living that is the land of Israel for because of the transgression of my people, this plague came to the righteous among them.

Being cut off from the land of the living, you automatically assume it means death, which it doesn't...
Actually, Isaiah 53:12 uses the word death which in Hebrew is 'maveth' in transliteration. It's the same word used in, for instance, Job 27:15.
Job 27:15 Those that remain of him shall be buried in death: and his widows shall not weep.
Isaiah 53:12 from the Tanack
Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors

Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 53 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

From the tanack
53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...iah-chapter-53
Additionally, the fact that Isa. 53:9 states that ''His grave was assigned with wicked men'' should tell you that when Isa. 53:8 states that ''He was cut off from the land of the living'' it is referring to His actual death.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Georgia
3,987 posts, read 2,111,663 times
Reputation: 3111
Understanding The Gospel has always been, and will always be confusing for non believers. Without Gods Holy Spirit in our heart, we cannot have an understanding of it. I didn't understand it until I surrendered my heart to Jesus. Now, I'm expecting sarcastic and cynical responses from the usual suspects out there.
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:04 AM
 
5,912 posts, read 2,604,239 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
Understanding The Gospel has always been, and will always be confusing for non believers. Without Gods Holy Spirit in our heart, we cannot have an understanding of it. I didn't understand it until I surrendered my heart to Jesus. Now, I'm expecting sarcastic and cynical responses from the usual suspects out there.
Thought god was everywhere?


Poor you
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Georgia
3,987 posts, read 2,111,663 times
Reputation: 3111
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
Thought god was everywhere?


Poor you
Your response proves me correct. I don't need your sympathy- I have Jesus.
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:05 AM
 
5,912 posts, read 2,604,239 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
Your response proves me correct. I don't need your sympathy- I have Jesus.
Lol, how so?

So god isn't omnipresent.
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:11 AM
 
9,588 posts, read 5,043,563 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
Understanding The Gospel has always been, and will always be confusing for non believers. Without Gods Holy Spirit in our heart, we cannot have an understanding of it. I didn't understand it until I surrendered my heart to Jesus. Now, I'm expecting sarcastic and cynical responses from the usual suspects out there.

So true. Peace
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:52 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,029,149 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
You REALLY have to work hard to make it come out the way you want it to, don't you.
Nope...You do...Oh, and it would help if you unstood Hebrew and her idioms...
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:54 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,029,149 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Actually, Isaiah 53:12 uses the word death which in Hebrew is 'maveth' in transliteration. It's the same word used in, for instance, Job 27:15.
Job 27:15 Those that remain of him shall be buried in death: and his widows shall not weep.
Isaiah 53:12 from the Tanack
Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors

Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 53 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

From the tanack
53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...iah-chapter-53
Additionally, the fact that Isa. 53:9 states that ''His grave was assigned with wicked men'' should tell you that when Isa. 53:8 states that ''He was cut off from the land of the living'' it is referring to His actual death.
Nope...
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