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There's a situation that has just come to my knowledge that affects my in-laws. They're Catholic and we've just learned, via the 11 o'clock news last night, that apparently over the next year, by July 2009, the Archdiocese of our area will be merging/consolodating 5 catholic churches in one neighborhood of my city into one parish.
Now, as I'm not Catholic, I'm not sure how much I can weigh in on this subject. But, I want to support my family. My FIL has been going to St. Stephens for 76 years (since birth)! Logically, I can understand why the diocese is moving in this direction. We've had population loss for over 2 decades, not enough money, etc., etc. But I also am astonished at how they notified their parishoners ... most not personally, most not during mass, most not via letter. They left it up to the TV news and local newspaper. Is that acceptable behavior for a church to treat their congregation? As far as I'm aware, there's been no public input whatsoever.
Also, even though they're all Catholic churches, they're all separate and distinct, mostly ethnically. Each of the churches represents Slovac, Croatian, Hungarian/Polish, Italian and Irish backgrounds ... all merged into one? And, not to be outdone, this is the 2nd such announcement just this year. Last month, two Catholic churches in East Conemaugh (boro adjacent to city) were merged into one.
How would all this make you feel to lose an "identity" of sorts, your "home"? What would/could you do to either outright accept, lessen the impact or outright refuse to accept this course of action?
NOTE: I'm truly interested in everyone's opinions, but especially our Catholic brothers & sisters. I don't want to see any derrogatory comments regarding Catholics here. As far as I'm concerned, they are just as much Christian as any other follower of Christ, regardless of denomination.
Each of the churches represents Slovac, Croatian, Hungarian/Polish, Italian and Irish backgrounds ... all merged into one?
How would all this make you feel to lose an "identity" of sorts, your "home"? What would/could you do to either outright accept, lessen the impact or outright refuse to accept this course of action?
I can certainly understand how they feel, but maybe it's time for them
to think of themselves as family under God...
We're ALL God's children, ethnicity not withstanding.
I would be heart broken, I myself have gone to one church for the last 15 years, and I developed close relationships with the people and they watched my kids grow and knew ever heartache and trial I endured and likewise with them. I would also take this opportunity to ask myself some serious questions.....like why wasn't I told? and why does it seem the clergy are at a distance, relationship wise with there parishioners? And what is it that I would need for my family and there growth in Jesus Christ. How involved will I be in helping others cope with this loss?
Mams,Sorry about your FIL losing his church.76 years is a long time to have roots.When churchs are made up ethnically,the loss of the church and the church family is even greater.What can he do?There are fewer priests and the church has paid out huge amounts of money due to law suits.Just that combination leads to many closures.
You are a loving SIL and Christian for being concerned for your FIL and defending our Catholic brothers and sisters.
I can certainly understand how they feel, but maybe it's time for them
to think of themselves as family under God...
We're ALL God's children, ethnicity not withstanding.
I understand that and you understand that and, I'm fairly certain, they understand that ... but on a different level maybe
My FIL said "yeah, we're all Catholic and the mass probably won't change but it won't be the same". He was referring to mass spoken in Slovak, or special music. It's the worship of God in the style he was comfortable with or that made the most connection with him. See, there's something I believe intrinsic with those of the Catholic faith as it regards their "home" church and how that translates in how they worship. That's what I'm trying to understand so when things begin to change I can say or do or help without putting my foot in my mouth so to speak, or say something I think is innocent that he finds offensive or callous.
It's already a bit sensitive because I "stole" his daughter from the church (she converted/adopted my baptist ways ) -- never mind that was 14 yrs ago.
Last edited by mams1559; 02-26-2008 at 01:56 PM..
Reason: add'l thoughts
I would be heart broken, I myself have gone to one church for the last 15 years, and I developed close relationships with the people and they watched my kids grow and knew ever heartache and trial I endured and likewise with them. I would also take this opportunity to ask myself some serious questions.....like why wasn't I told? and why does it seem the clergy are at a distance, relationship wise with there parishioners? And what is it that I would need for my family and there growth in Jesus Christ. How involved will I be in helping others cope with this loss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JANA MANIA
Mams,Sorry about your FIL losing his church.76 years is a long time to have roots.When churchs are made up ethnically,the loss of the church and the church family is even greater.What can he do?There are fewer priests and the church has paid out huge amounts of money due to law suits.Just that combination leads to many closures.
You are a loving SIL and Christian for being concerned for your FIL and defending our Catholic brothers and sisters.
Thank you both for your responses. JANA, I agree... what can I do? I'll be praying about it and remain open and sensitive to possible opportunities to help, but I'd also like to be prepared in a knowledgeable way. I don't want to just throw up my hands and say oh well, deal with it. Cold reality is, that's all they can do. But there has to be more I can do than just re-state the obvious.
And Michelle1210, the issues you raised are some that went through my head. It appeared to be such a lack of common respect to the majority of their parishoners. My FIL attends mass nearly every Sunday and heard nothing from his church or priest. Only 1 priest of the 5 mentioned it during this Sunday's mass. Is it common to not discuss things publicly that affect everyone? Is it a my way or the highway mentality in general or just here?
That's why I'd really like to hear from other catholics, their take on this. I'm not familiar with the heirarchy and might be offended where no offense was intended. I'm an outsider looking in ...
I understand that and you understand that and, I'm fairly certain, they understand that ... but on a different level maybe
My FIL said "yeah, we're all Catholic and the mass probably won't change but it won't be the same". He was referring to mass spoken in Slovak, or special music. It's the worship of God in the style he was comfortable with or that made the most connection with him. See, there's something I believe intrinsic with those of the Catholic faith as it regards their "home" church and how that translates in how they worship. That's what I'm trying to understand so when things begin to change I can say or do or help without putting my foot in my mouth so to speak, or say something I think is innocent that he finds offensive or callous.
It's already a bit sensitive because I "stole" his daughter from the church (she converted/adopted my baptist ways ) -- never mind that was 14 yrs ago.
Didn't mean to sound calloused...
I was just speaking from my own limited experience...
I was raised Catholic, and went to 2 different churches...
One that the Canadians went to and the other that was primarily Italian...
BOTH spoke and sang in English and there was little difference.
These days I'm non-denominational Christian
and will be looking for a church home in Oklahoma
when we move there... (I hear it will be easy!)
Sorry if I sounded mean, it was NOT my intention.
I hope your in-laws work things out OK.
Maybe you could invite them to YOUR church!
Sorry for being a punk, but if their daughter
was good with it, they might be.... Eventually.
That is unless they find a Catholic church that speaks their language...
As I read through your posts it occurred to me that the people will all be at the new church and will have the opportunity to keep their old relationships intact ... they will also have the opportunity to meet new people and make new friends.
Hopefully the new church will offer services in all languages for all to understand and teach all to respect and to celebrate their differences. Many churches today offer services in multi-languages. (and even signing)
In a crisis, something called tunnel vision occurs. We can only see the immediate pain.
While I empathize with the loss that they're experiencing, it seems that there's a door of opportunity for new experience, new friends and growth.
My FIL has been going to St. Stephens for 76 years (since birth)!
Here in the suburbs of Boston, there was a time when it seemed like every other night on the 11:00 news another church closing was being reported. This was some time after the settlements with the survivors of the priest sex scandels had been arrived at. It was very sad, all ways around. What particularly struck me, (atheist June) was the fact that churches were closing all across the state as a means to fund the monies awarded in the settlement. June never understood that one...It just didn't make sense. Thousands of individuals were suddenly faced with the fact that (through absolutely no fault of their own) their church would be closing. I can remember watching people who were interviewed on the news, and they were devastated; heart broken. Much like your father in law, Mams, there were people who were saying how they had been baptised in a particular church, received first holy communion there, had been confirmed there, married there, and but for the fact that their church was now being closed and sold, they had expected to have their funerals there...
However, I can also recall how a number of parishes decided to protest. They held vigils in the church. The people all came together, and decided that they would occupy the churches 24/7. They slept there, ate there, and took designated shifts. June remembers feeling something close to awe when she heard that. People have power. --And in a number of instances, they managed to keep their church(s) from being closed and sold.
Church closings here in Massachusetts have unfortunatley not been uncommon. It's made me think about religion and religious communities in a very different perspective, way.
--Grief comes in many forms. Losing one's life long church is no exception. It is still a huge loss...
Take gentle care.
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) -- never mind that was 14 yrs ago.
