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Ah, yes, abominations mont certainly means homosexuality....
And they became haughty: She and her daughters, as is delineated in Job (28:5): “A land from which bread emerged,” and the entire piece (ibid. 4-9). [The Sodomites grew in haughtiness] until they said, “Let us cause the habit of traveling [lit. the foot] to be forgotten from our land, for they come only to cause us loss.”
and I removed them when I saw: their way, as the matter that is stated regarding Sodom (Gen. 18:21): “I shall go down and see.”
KJV Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
The city was totally corrupt.
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
The word here, know, indicates sexual knowledge.
7. And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Homosexual activity were part of the abomination.
Last edited by mensaguy; 04-11-2018 at 07:13 AM..
Reason: Quit using red text. Read the rules.
KJV Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
The city was totally corrupt.
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
The word here, know, indicates sexual knowledge.
7. And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Homosexual activity were part of the abomination.
Nope...That is not what G-d said there sins were in Ezekiel.
Last edited by mensaguy; 04-11-2018 at 07:13 AM..
Reason: Red text removed from quoted post.
KJV Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
The city was totally corrupt.
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
The word here, know, indicates sexual knowledge.
7. And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Homosexual activity were part of the abomination.
4 When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end[of the city].
It says the people, which includes men and women and possibly children...You are only assuming or interpreting that it was just the men of the city...And if they were men that wanted men, what would giving his daughters accomplish?...
Last edited by mensaguy; 04-11-2018 at 07:14 AM..
Reason: Red text removed
4 When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end[of the city].
It says the people, which includes men and women and possibly children...You are only assuming or interpreting that it was just the men of the city...And if they were men that wanted men, what would giving his daughters accomplish?...
Fundies need to keep their erroneous interpretation in order to justify their fear and hatred of the LGBTQ.
They won't let facts or truth dilute the purity of their hatred.
Usually, I don’t respond to the nonsensical . But...
You are free to dispute anything that I have to say, ST. However, you need to use an element of Bible savvy with which to accomplish this. You appear to be lacking in this area and so you persistently give out opinions that you've acquired (over the years?) from the church hierarchy AS IF they are biblical facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy
No one said sodomy was in the Bible.
But you DID use the term 'sodomy' as though it IS found in the Bible and that the term ('sodomy'), you say, gives an accurate description of what took place in the probable fable of Sodom, Lot and the angels. You were using that term scripturally with which to make a bogus point and that is what I corrected you on. That said, I would guess that the average Christian DOES believe that the term 'sodomy' IS in the Bible and that the inhabitants of Sodom are referred to as 'sodomites'. Not true on both counts. The most ignorant people that I've come across when it comes to Bible savvy are ...professed Christians . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy
People call the sin of sodomy because it is a direct reference to Sodom. I can’t believe I had to explain this to you.
You really are not catching on, ST. The interpretation of the story of Sodom and its bogus connection to homosexuality IS NOT a basis for someone having inaccurately coined the term 'sodomy'. The city was called Sodom. The inhabitants of the city are NOT referred to as 'sodomites' A 'sodomite' was a male temple prostitute. NOWHERE in scripture are we told that anal sex occurred in the city of Sodom even if it DID occur! Am I moving too fast for you . . .?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy
As far as super natural events as human turning into salt, and calling actual events a tale, well, you are in the group of many that post here.
You mean those of us who see the Bible as a book written by human beings and our use of God-given reasoning abilities with which to determine the literal from the metaphorical, the fanciful or the poetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy
They don’t believe in the Bible either. You don’t want to be in that group. When the Creator of the Universe calls them fools, that is not a good thing.
How come when one differs with an interpretation of scripture from those who are fundamentally closed-minded they are hit with this derogatory "You don't believe the Bible" ...? It IS possible to 'believe' the Bible while taking into account what could be metaphorical and what could be literal. Jesus, regarding His parables, spoke in metaphors all the time. In other words, they were stories told by Jesus which contained an underlying message or theme. Are you aware of this or do you refer to those of us who understand Jesus' stories as not being 'literal' as 'non-believers'?
Anyway, back to Sodom, ST. The story says that ALL the men of Sodom came pounding on Lot's door. That means the straight and (if there were any) homosexual men. Men were seen as the powerful. Men with such an agenda would rape other men as it placed them in a subservient position and was done to humiliate them. In this story it would have been intended to humiliate strangers. Sure it’s about sex… but that is not the specific point in the story. That said, this supposed incident never took place anyway ...there WAS no rape, only an intent! Leave it to the religiously brainwashed not to consider anything other than what has been fed to them for decades…
As mentioned, you also associated the word sodomy with homosexuals which wasn’t even a word until the 12th century ...homosexual was not a word until the 1800’s. Are you surprised that THAT word (homosexual) is not found in ANY pre-1946 manuscripts of scripture, ST? You won't find the terms 'homosexual/homosexuality' in your KJV Bible. NOR will you find any equivalent term in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek!
4 When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end[of the city].
It says the people, which includes men and women and possibly children...You are only assuming or interpreting that it was just the men of the city...And if they were men that wanted men, what would giving his daughters accomplish?...
When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end[of the city].
As you say, the Jewish Bible states that the entire populace from every end of the city converged on Lot's home. This means, as you say, that both the men and the women and possibly children were involved in this confrontation. So, where did this 'men only' scripture come from that the anti-gay religious brigade use so persistently with which to denigrate homosexuals?
When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end[of the city].
As you say, the Jewish Bible states that the entire populace from every end of the city converged on Lot's home. This means, as you say, that both the men and the women and possibly children were involved in this confrontation. So, where did this 'men only' scripture come from that the anti-gay religious brigade use so persistently with which to denigrate homosexuals?
In the bible when it says----"to know them"----it means sex. Do you think God was mad at the city for wanting to have a tea party with the angels he sent?
In the bible when it says----"to know them"----it means sex. Do you think God was mad at the city for wanting to have a tea party with the angels he sent?
Ezekiel indicates that the primary sin was lack of hospitality which was a MUCH bigger deal than sex among ancient peoples.
And that explanation makes a lot more sense of the NT words of Jesus where He states that for those towns and villages that reject His disciples (lack of hospitality) it would be worse for them in the judgment days than for Sodom and Gomorrah.
When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end[of the city].
As you say, the Jewish Bible states that the entire populace from every end of the city converged on Lot's home. This means, as you say, that both the men and the women and possibly children were involved in this confrontation. So, where did this 'men only' scripture come from that the anti-gay religious brigade use so persistently with which to denigrate homosexuals?
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144
In the bible when it says----"to know them"----it means sex. Do you think God was mad at the city for wanting to have a tea party with the angels he sent?
What relevance has your remark got to the above post? Moreover, when did I ever say that "to know them" didn't refer to sex? Of course it refers to 'sex' ...sex as intended rape! But this notion of the people of Sodom was quashed anyway ...it did not take place so why do people keep on and on and on about something that never happened?
My above comment was made to Richard1965 who quoted the Jewish Bible on this particular scripture. Are you aware that the Tenakh records this alleged event to have included ALL the people of the city of Sodom? Are we to believe that ALL the inhabitants of Sodom were gay? Are we to believe that it would have been even feasible for ALL the people of Sodom - men, women and children - to have sex with Lot's visitors? Last question ...why on earth do professed Christians STILL use this far-out, weird, unbelievable piece of (probable) fiction to denigrate homosexuals in the year 2018??
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