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Great picture above MQ! And what do we see? Nature, pure and full of life, and no sign of mankind and his adulteration. That's "church" to me too. Some of us here get it. There is hope.
Those of us who believe take it further, as a double bonus. Worshipping and praying in that kind of setting can be spiritually euphoric at times.
In contrast, most of the slugs and thugs stuck behind the walls of the standard church will never experience that. For them, it's about being surrounded by and being seen by men, in a structure built by man, furnished with man-made items, often engaging in political ways.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 06-10-2018 at 10:48 AM..
I think its very strange how nearly all churches, no matter what denomination, are all fairly good tenants for the cities they are located in, I know for a fact the large catholic church my family attends has a great relationship with the city and state govts, public services, police, etc will go out of their way to help or assist the church anytime they need it.
I dont think Ive ever seen a church where the city despises them or tries to shut them down, or prevent one from building, relocating, they seem to be very buddy-buddy, but Jesus warns us that the secular world will hate and despise christians...I dont see anything remotely close to that going on around me, in fact its the exact opposite!
I think if churches were really preaching the laws of God, most cities and states would treat them like the plague and think of them on the same level as Lets say Westboro Baptist!
You're definition of worship is horse pile. In addition, no Catholic I know worships their church. What we do recognize is that the Catholic Church is the only Church that Jesus created. We respect and recognize its historical connection to Jesus and the Apostles, its Authority, and its Tradition.
Of course you believe that the Catholic Church is the only church that Jesus created. That's a very good reason for you to be Catholic. But don't state it as if it's an indisputable fact, because it's not. And by the way, I don't know of any Catholic who worships his church. Finally, lest you think that because I don't believe your claims about Catholicism being the Church Jesus Christ established, I am at all anti-Catholic, you can think again. I do find Catholic cathedrals to be exceptionally beautiful. I definitely feel God's spirit when I'm in one of them.
I worship no church/religion, but love the principle teachings of Science of Mind...
Change Your Mind, Change Your Life
And there are MANY hypocrites/liars in high places that make that christian claim. People in lower places too of course. And many of these people spew hate.
Good thing our animals have no religions.
Further to this, the church/religion I was born into and raised until I learned to "THINK" taught guilt, fear, sin, obedience and most of all separation from so many good people I learned to dislike and fear thru the teachings of that church...catholic. I'm totally gone from there.
When I think of the good people I turned my mind and back on all those years I can just scream.
Think about it folks.
Last edited by jaminhealth; 06-10-2018 at 01:22 PM..
I grew up a Catholic- and LOVED my church- and fought HARD to prove its teachings when JWs came to my door! I LOST- thank heavens! Th spirit kicked in!
When so many REFUSE to question their church dogma, the answer to the Topic is YES!
Let me guess. That includes everyone but the members of whatever Church of What's Happening Now where you belong.
I grew up a Catholic- and LOVED my church- and fought HARD to prove its teachings when JWs came to my door! I LOST- thank heavens! Th spirit kicked in!
When so many REFUSE to question their church dogma, the answer to the Topic is YES!
How on earth did you manage to lose a debate against a Jehovah's Witness? Did they intimidate you? Were you not prepared to deal with their sensations? Seriously, I'll tell you what happened: you thought you knew so much at the time but had yet to learn basic doctrines of the church. I find this hard to believe from any Roman Catholic who has been confirmed. So you take up the challenge with the JW and lose all doctrines due to your lack of understanding and not their supreme knowledge.
Now I know how to debate a Roman Catholic properly, without the use of sensational rhetoric. As an Anglican, I not a Roman Catholic but share in common many views of the RCC. You being a JW have no knowledge of either Roman Catholic or Anglican Catholic if you lost a debate to a JW.
Let me guess, you don't know how to defend the Trinity?
WHO WAS JESUS CHRIST? Was He just a Prophet? Maybe Jesus was just a good guy? Or, more importantly, was Jesus the Son of God, the word made flesh? The following verses below are taken only from the Gospels except the last verse. Jesus Himself answers these things and tells you Who He Is.
"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. 2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”
3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed" (Matt.8:1-3).
The leper worshiped Jesus. Jesus touched the leper and he was immediately cleansed. Who could heal a leper just by touching him? Only God has this power to heal.
"And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples 3 and said to Him, “Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?”
4 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: 5 The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me" (Matt.11:2-6).
Notice that the answer was not Our soldiers are ready to fight, our swords are sharpened, we have raised an army and will attack Rome soon,' as some believe Jesus was just a military man. No, this is not the answer Jesus gave. The answer He did give was something only God can do.
The next verse is about Peter walking on water to meet Jesus. Peter starts to sink and Jesus reaches out His hand and rescues him. The following verse in Matt.14:33 says,
"Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.”
So Jesus received worship as the Son of God. So lets continue.
In Matt.16:13-19, Peter calls Jesus the Christ, the Son of the living God. Peter did not answer Jesus by saying how he is the soldier who will raise an army to defeat the Romans in battle. Christ is not a title anyone can have. Nobody on earth has ever bore such a title except Jesus.
Mark 14:61-62,
"...Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?”
62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
Here again, the title Christ is understood to mean something beyond a military leader. No military leader in the ancient world went by the rank of Christ. And not just any good guy was called Christ.
"And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35).
"When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” (Luke 5:20-21).
So the Pharisees, who were the dominant majority of Jewish teachers, knew that only God can forgive sin. They accused Jesus of blasphemy for forgiving sin.
Here is one you don't see quoted much in discussions like this. But it sure looks very clear to me that Jesus is God in the text.
"Now the man from whom the demons had departed begged Him that he might be with Him. But Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 “Return to your own house, and tell what great things God has done for you.” And he went his way and proclaimed throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him" (Luke 8:38-39).
Jesus drives out demons from this possessed man and tells him to return to his home and tell what great things GOD has done for him. So he goes home and tells the whole city what JESUS had done for him.
Luke 9:18-22 is also worth looking up, as Peter answered Jesus and said He is "The Christ of God." So those who think the title Christ means a good guy or just a religious teacher are not paying attention to what is written about the Christ in the Gospels.
The next verse is about Jesus being put on trial in the Sanhedrin. Luke 22:70-71,
70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?”
So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”
71 And they said, “What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth.”
Jesus admits He is the Son of God.
Then there is John 1:1-5,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
John 1:14,
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 4:25-26,
"The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
John 5:17-18,
"But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 8:57-59,
"Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
Jesus said He is I AM (Exo.3:14). That is why the Jews picked up stones to throw at Him. Jesus just said He is God.
John 14:6-7,
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
The Father Revealed
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
He is telling His disciples that they have seen God...the word made flesh. A very clear statement where Jesus is telling His disciples He is God.
John 19:15,
"...Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?”
The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”
The chief priests here have just denied the Father and the Son and are now idolaters who worship false gods like Caesar.
John 20:28-29,
"28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
And last, moving back to a prophecy in Isaiah about the coming Christ,
Isaiah 9:6,
"For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government shall be upon his shoulder.
And his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."
Jesus is the word made flesh. He is God.
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