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I like where you're going with this...BUT, science now has come to a point that what was unexplainable paranormal and supernatural...is way more explainable now.
But there is that which actually is supernatural. That which is above and beyond what is natural. Astronomers will never be able to locate heaven through a telescope. Scientists will never be able to conduct experiments on God.
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I'm sorry. I didn't define my terms....parlor tricks have nothing to do with magic.
We are not talking about Penn and Teller here.
I wasn't talking about parlor tricks, illusions, and Las Vegas magicians either. I was referring to actual magic in contrast with 'parlor tricks'. All ancient peoples considered magic to be a real force, and in myth even the gods could be controlled through the use of magic which made magic more powerful than the gods.
But God's power is not related to magic. God simply is all powerful.
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Agreed...is that what we are talking about? Other realms of existence?
You seem to be trying to provide a naturalistic explanation for how Jesus ascended. I'm simply saying that the ascension was real and that the ability to ascend into heaven was either an ability of Jesus' resurrection body, or that he was able to ascend because of divine power.
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Good deduction...
We are made in God's image and we are to do greater things than Jesus...do you think that was an example to us, ie... his leaving this earth by way of ascending...or disappearing?
Again, showing us what we were destined to be able to do, thus,
erasing the self imposed limits we place on ourselves?
As I said, when Jesus told the disciples (and what he said was to the disciples, not to us) that they would do greater things than he, he didn't mean in terms of quality. What could the apostles have done that was greater than raising the dead? What Jesus meant was that they would do greater things in terms of quantity. Jesus' ministry lasted for around three years. In that time he performed x amount of miracles. But the apostles performed more miracles, and converted more people than Jesus himself did because their combined ministries were much longer than the three years of Jesus' ministry.
We (you and I) cannot raise the dead. Nor can we ascend into heaven by willing it. The miracles that the apostles did were unique to them because they were given the ability to perform those miracles during the apostolic age of the Church.
We (you and I) cannot raise the dead. Nor can we ascend into heaven by willing it.
The miracles that the apostles did were unique to them because they were given
the ability to perform those miracles during the apostolic age of the Church.
I see more what you r thinking, cuz I have heard this before that many think powers
or abilities are thought to have been 'then', but not 'now'.
And because it is your believe ...it is true for you.
This is a belief I don't have.
AND it is a belief that I personally can't tackle or change on a forum. So many don't believe Smith Wigglesworth or what John G.Lake did...or Mama Jenkins...most haven't even heard of them...If I told you things I and others, right here, have done in my town,
you wouldn't believe it. So, I won't try.
And yes, every single thing that ever happens that seems supernatural is really natural...
everything that is Divine is natural....and that doesn't reduce It's awesomeness!
Nothing that is Divine is out of our reach.
But if you think it is ...it always will be.
Ok, I don't wanna place ideas in your heads with my comments....
What is it you think he did...maybe, also, speak on how do you think he walked on water?
Those 2 should be enough... to erase these 2 as miracles as we move on with the thread...
and maybe talk about atoms.
(Not diminishing Jesus in any way, mind you.)
My intention is, maybe just maybe, atheists will stop thinking of us as brainless believers
in some fantasy fluff... and believers in fantasy fluff will see it's not fluff at all!
Since the story of Jesus "ascension" is derived from the NT, let's see what the NT actually says.
Acts 1:
[3] To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
After some forty days of various resurrection appearances, Jesus lifted bodily off of the ground and disappeared into the clouds.
Ya know, we lived in a world for long time that Newton fashioned for us...for
our minds to be quite comfortable with...smart guy, that Newton.
He paved the way for Max Plank, m'man.
Now we have a whole other understanding of the dynamics of subatomic particles.
I don't know if there is a need to say more...I do believe, with respect, my brothers and sisters
don't open often enough to that which is unseen with our naked eyes..but has been
seen with stronger instruments....and analyzed, studied, researched with extraordinary results.
It would allow us to see Jesus' miracles and miracles that we do in a different light;
with more knowledge of the workings of what we previously didn't understand.
Miss Hepburn, what do you think Jesus did when he ascended? Did you answer that, I scanned through but couldn't find the answer? Just curious as to what you're thinking about here. You have interesting perspectives on things and I'd like to know more re: this one. I probably won't get into much of the conversation but you have my interest piqued.
peace friend,
sparrow
Wasnt there a handful of people who literally saw Jesus ascend? Im assuming it was nothing spectacular, just a man rising up into the sky, once he got high enough, they could not see him anymore.
Only Jesus' followers saw the risen Jesus, according to them, and only his followers saw him bodily ascend up to heaven. Acts does not indicate how many of his followers were present to witness Jesus rising up into the air.
Acts 1:
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
He disappeared into a cloud. And then what, one might wonder? I have been above the clouds many times. There is nothing there but more up. But then, to ancient people heaven and the heavens were the same thing. Heaven was presumed to be located behind the veil of stars.
A man physically rising up into the air IS pretty spectacular however, if you ask me. Presumably Jesus was not flapping his arms like a bird as he flew up into the sky.
Miss Hepburn, what do you think Jesus did when he ascended? Did you answer that, I scanned through but couldn't find the answer? Just curious as to what you're thinking about here. You have interesting perspectives on things and I'd like to know more re: this one. I probably won't get into much of the conversation but you have my interest piqued.
peace friend,
sparrow
Hi sparrow, I didn't want to influence people and their ideas...at least for awhile.
Plus, it never means much when someone says something they think is too
different from their beliefs of many years...seems a knee-jerk reaction is to say you should see a shrink.
So many have not given it much thought...I'd love if they would come to their own conclusions after mentioning Max Plank...quantum physics...sub-atomic particles...the unseen with the naked eyes, but using EM microscopes what we have found....stuff like that.
I was shown once, decades ago, exactly how Jesus ascended ...haha, I always have to say with no drugs...gosh, I was a vegetarian, didn't even drink coffee!
It wasn't because I was smart...it's just it was revealed to me...I 'got it'.
(This stuff happens when you
sit for hours and hours and hours and hours in stillness sometimes.)
Take care
YES, to ans your first ques.
In 2018...would it not be 'spectacular' to see your neighbor levitate in front
of your eyes...even if you were drunk or high?.....not that that was what Jesus did.
More than likely, I would not believe it, even if it happened right in front of me.
YES, to ans your first ques.
In 2018...would it not be 'spectacular' to see your neighbor levitate in front
of your eyes...even if you were drunk or high?.....not that that was what Jesus did.
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