Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you truly believe this, you need to obey every law under the OT. Do you?
For the most part, yes. We can only do our best and Yahweh sees this and rewards us accordingly. But to blatantly do the things that he finds an abomination, like eating pork, these are displeasing to Yahweh.
For the most part, yes. We can only do our best and Yahweh sees this and rewards us accordingly. But to blatantly do the things that he finds an abomination, like eating pork, these are displeasing to Yahweh.
So, you think you can pick and choose which of the OT laws God finds more offensive, and just follow those? If you believe the OT laws are still in effect, you need to obey every one of them.
What is so difficult about understanding 1 Timothy 4:4?
I understand this to mean that Timothy was speaking about meats sacrificed to idols. All of the apostles were Jews and followed the dietary laws, therefore clean vs. unclean would not have been the issue here. Rather it would have been sacrificed vs. unsacrificed. This debate was ongoing and was evident in the following scriptures.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. THESE ARE THE DIETARY LAWS!!!
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
In other words, don't worry about the laws, other then the most important dietary laws and fornication.....everything else will be preached in the synagogues every sabbath day and the Gentiles will learn from the Jews what is acceptable and not acceptable, including the importance of the Sabbath.
Later, the Apostles did not quite agree upon whether or not Gentiles in particular should eat food sacrificed unto idols. Some said it was okay, others said it was not okay.
Even still Jesus expressed his final approval in Revelation, which is what we should follow.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
So the "grace gospel" that is popular today was taught by Jezebel and others and is responsible for the state of the church today as confirmed again by Jesus. No arguing with the Master.
So, you think you can pick and choose which of the OT laws God finds more offensive, and just follow those? If you believe the OT laws are still in effect, you need to obey every one of them.
Yes we should and I do, to the best of my ability. God calls some "violations" abominations and those we should pay careful attention to. Especially when He says the following:
Lev 11:29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind.
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh (PIG), and the abomination (unclean animals), and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
I don't know about you guys but I don't intend to tick off the Maker of Heaven and Earth just because I want to eat bbq or shrimp scampi. Sorry, not going to take that chance. It's just food.
WOW MrsMtnsOnTheMind you are so right on. It is so refreshing to see a xtian that has read correctly instead of riding the greasy grace train invented by the dispensationalists and those writing their own scripture to meet their personal lifestyles. They just keep forgetting God does NOT change. Never has and NEVER will. HIS statutes and ordinances stand FOREVER.......a word NOT in their vocabulary. They cut and paste to try to blot out HIS word. It doesn't work. They will have to answer to HIM some day so no worries....it's not our place to judge but to just try to live HIS desires for us as HIS scripture stated it, not the revisionist viewpoints you'll get here.
The next scripture helps me to understand what Paul is talking about.
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Where in God's word does He sanctifies unclean things? Maybe, someone can show me in the Old or New Testament where Jesus changed His mind concerning the Clean and Unclean animals.
They can't, because it never occurred. God never changes and the new covenant did not indicate a change either. Anytime food is mentioned in the new covenant, it pertains to foods being sacrificed to idols, not whether they were clean or unclean.
Ya'll go ahead and try to live under the 600 or so OT laws. I will live under the NT, and partake in the greasy grace and greasy bacon.
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Galatians 3
22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Oh, and God NEVER changes, or changes His mind? Does that mean that we must still sacrifice animals for our sins, or did God change His mind and send His Son to die for us?
Oh, and God NEVER changes, or changes His mind? Does that mean that we must still sacrifice animals for our sins, or did God change His mind and send His Son to die for us?
?
God did not change His mind concerning the sacrificial system. Maybe this will help.
Genesis 3:15
Luke 24:25-27
Acts 3:25, 26
Galatians 3:19
Hebrews 10:1-10
God did not change His mind concerning the sacrificial system. Maybe this will help.
Genesis 3:15
Luke 24:25-27
Acts 3:25, 26
Galatians 3:19
Hebrews 10:1-10
I don't understand what you're saying. So do you believe we must still sacrifice animals for our sins, like they did before Jesus, or did God's rule change, and we went from sacrificing animals to Jesus being sacrificed for us, and so we no longer have to sacrifice animals?
That is my point. MrsMtns and dcisive say God never changes, therefore His laws never change. I pointed out this one most definitely did. If this one can change, so can others.
I really like Galatians 3. It does show that we are no longer under the old law.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
