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See, it's those kinds of comments that really confuse me.
But oh well, what I've said stands.
I don't think the Holy Spirit is as disconnected in our lives as your post implies. I believe He is active in our lives and in fact is where Christians draw the power of God from. I believe He is the active agent in our lives today.
I'm confused on how Christ could ever act un-Christlike but since you don't seem to be able to respond to me without sarcasm (do you know the origin of that word? it's 'flesh' not 'spirit'--SARX--See your Strong's), then I certainly don't desire for you to explain.
The bottom line is that we are not all cookie cutter individuals. Your relationship with the Lord is different than mine. Not better or worse, just different.
If you think I don't rightly divide the Word of God and am misapplying the Word, well, you're entitled to your opinion. It does not mean you are correctthough.....and remember....Paul teachit was you in the OP who said that es that knowledge has passed away, so how can you trust what you 'know' if knowledge has passed away?
Originally Posted by Marianinark Paul says that the gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge will cease.
Please note that I said it was the gifts that would cease.
1 Cor. 13 8 Love never fails. But whether thereare prophecies, they will fail; whether thereare tongues,they will cease, whether thereis knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we propsy in part.
10 But when that which perfect is come, then that which is in part will be done away.
Okay, the scripture from the NKJV says " pass away" instead "cease" . It is tongues that it says "will cease". Maybe "fail", "cease" and "pass away"" have differant meanings?
I threw in verse 10 because many think that is referring to the coming of Christ. I don't think Christ was ever called a "that". The perfect law of liberty could very well be called "that".
Back to the word "knowledge", it is quite obvious that the verse is speaking of the miraculous gift of knowledge...not about the written word of God.
If I started a thread and 90 percent of my brothers and sisters disagreed with me, at the very least, I would go back and restudy and pray to see if I missed something. I would not just assume that my brothers and sisters were wrong and attack them. This just does not seem Christ like to me.
So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifiying their hearts by faith. ACTS 15: 8-9
I have tried to post today (Wed is my off day since I work all day Sat) to pull out the scripture and refute this weak theology, but have felt that inner voice tell me to let it go. Actually, I find a more openness today in the various churches I connect with, even those that are traditionally more closed to the power gifts of the Spirit, than I did in the 80s when I first began to follow the Lord's leading in this wonderful walk. I debated with other Christians a lot back then and found it never produced much fruit.
Instead, I now find myself working with many unbelievers and many who grew up with a nominal belief in God but no relationship with Him and little biblical knowledge. I would rather share scriptural truths with them. They are unbelievers and actually are hungry and appreciative of my sharing biblical truth with them and I don't get bashed like I do with the Christians who love their traditions.
Here is an example of how the Holy Spirit used the gifts in a practical way to bless another. I sell cars, we have a team of young guys that detail them between the time a customer chooses the car and they drive home in it. One of the young guys that cleans them was sitting down, head in his hands. He told me he had a fever for three days but couldn't afford not to work. I went about my business, but kept hearing that inner voice to pray for him. I argued a bit, told the Lord that he will think I'm a kook. Finally I went to him and asked if he was a believer in Jesus. He said yes (from a Catholic background, but not a believer as in born again). I told him I believed Jesus still healed people like he did in the bible and could I pray for him. He suprised me by saying yes, he would like that. I laid hands on him right there in the service department, prayed for healing to come. The next day, he came to me and said he slept for the first time in days and woke up with no fever. Was it a miracle? Did it happen instantaneously? Well, that is not for me to control, only God's decision, but he got better.
My point is, if I had never had opened myself to receive the baptism of the Spirit and had seen in God's word and been mentored by people who actually walked in his power to heal, I would never have had the courage to pray with this young man. Since then he has talked to me about spiritual things. This prayer has opened up a relationship that I am praying will lead to his salvation.
So, I wll stop the bible debating with Christian who are already firm in their beliefs. I hope those who come thru this thread will know that God is a miracle working God and wants to use us if we will be willing to be a vessel. There are many who are lost that are hungry for His word and His power, let's stop the arguing among ourselves.
Based on the Bible, if these gifts were for today, why are the hospitals not empty?
They didn't have to lay on hands and hope for the best; they were given the power to heal.
They were also given the power to drink poison and not die. Where are all the people drinking Dran-O?
When you are speaking in tongues, where are you encountering these people who don't speak English? Do they not have a preacher who speaks their language?
Based on the Bible, if these gifts were for today, why are the hospitals not empty?
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (Rom 8:19)
There is no better answer than this, imo. We as Christians cannot give what we don't have - and the Lord is working on a people to empty them of self, and be filled with His life. He sets the captives free, He heals the sick, He raises the dead; but I believe He is showing us that without Him, we truly are nothing.
Instead, I now find myself working with many unbelievers and many who grew up with a nominal belief in God but no relationship with Him and little biblical knowledge. I would rather share scriptural truths with them. They are unbelievers and actually are hungry and appreciative of my sharing biblical truth with them and I don't get bashed like I do with the Christians who love their traditions.
Here is an example of how the Holy Spirit used the gifts in a practical way to bless another.
Thanks for your testimony, marks! Sounds like you have a good work to do for the Lord as you are open to the Spirit.
If I started a thread and 90 percent of my brothers and sisters disagreed with me, at the very least, I would go back and restudy and pray to see if I missed something. I would not just assume that my brothers and sisters were wrong and attack them. This just does not seem Christ like to me.
So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifiying their hearts by faith. ACTS 15: 8-9
The problem is....your brothers and sisters are of a differant persuasion than mine are. I have several million brothers and sisters in Christ that agree with me, the only reason you do not see them posting here, is because they have no interest in contending for the faith with those who refuse to see what the scriptures say. Perhaps I am not as wise as they??
Based on the Bible, if these gifts were for today, why are the hospitals not empty?
Where are the true believers, people taught righteousness, and receiving a fulness of the Spirit, in order to heal the sick, raise the dead.
Quote:
They didn't have to lay on hands and hope for the best; they were given the power to heal.
They were also given the power to drink poison and not die. Where are all the people drinking Dran-O?
When you are speaking in tongues, where are you encountering these people who don't speak English? Do they not have a preacher who speaks their language?
Your pointing out the failures of self professed believers, and the fact that we have not been taught to live the higher truths of God. Mediocrity has become modern day righteousness.
OK, I stand to be corrected because I said earlier that I was thru. I am done with arguing about the power gifts listed in 1Cor, but when healing gets slammed, I gotta respond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgusano
Based on the Bible, if these gifts were for today, why are the hospitals not empty?
They didn't have to lay on hands and hope for the best; they were given the power to heal.
Well, Elgu, I guess you will have a problem with Jesus and that he didn't heal according to your theology:
Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor." 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 And he was amazed at their lack of faith.
A lack of faith limited Jesus' ability to heal. Another time, Jesus did not see an instantaneous healing, but saw some improvement and then prayed a second time:
Mark 8:22 They came to Bethsaida, and some people brought a blind man and begged Jesus to touch him. 23 He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. When he had spit on the man's eyes and put his hands on him, Jesus asked, "Do you see anything?"
24 He looked up and said, "I see people; they look like trees walking around." 25 Once more Jesus put his hands on the man's eyes. Then his eyes were opened, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly.
Were all the hospitals cleared in Israel during Jesus' three years of ministry? Were all the leper colonies emptied? Who was left for the disciples to heal in the book of Acts? Here is one specific example:
Acts 3:1 One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the time of prayer—at three in the afternoon. 2Now a man crippled from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those going into the temple courts. 3When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money. 4Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, "Look at us!" 5So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them. 6Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk." 7Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong. 8He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God. 9When all the people saw him walking and praising God, 10they recognized him as the same man who used to sit begging at the temple gate called Beautiful, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.
How many times did Jesus go to the temple in Jerusalem? He would have gone thru this gate and by this man on several occassions as he was recognized as a regular fixture by the crowds. Why didn't Jesus heal him?
You are holding me and other believers to a standard that Jesus himself did not hold to. His ability to heal was limited by unbelief. He prayed twice for one guy. He did not heal everybody in Israel.
As for the dran-o remark, I know many missionaries who when served suspect food and drink and wishing to build bridges with these people, ate and drank and stood on Mark 16:18 in faith. That is why the snake handling churches are in error, Jesus said here "when" these things happen, not "go and" do them to prove your faith. An example of this is when Paul was shipwrecked and was bit by the snake, calmly flung it into the fire at the amazement of those around him who were expecting him to die.
Elgusano, why don't you share some of what God is doing thru you and in you instead of discrediting what he is doing in me. Every post I have shared you have come in with a critical attitude and told me how I was wrong. So I shouldn't have prayed for my co-worker? Should I have told him to bear that sickness for the glory of God? Would that have drawn him into a relationship with his creator?
Our hospitals are filled with sick people because of our unbelief. Instead of bringing some faith, you and your sad view of doctrine is doing nothing to counter this disbelief.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (Rom 8:19)
There is no better answer than this, imo. We as Christians cannot give what we don't have - and the Lord is working on a people to empty them of self, and be filled with His life. He sets the captives free, He heals the sick, He raises the dead; but I believe He is showing us that without Him, we truly are nothing.
We must be emptied before we are filled.
I thought this verse is talking about the resurrection.
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