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It seems to me that the plant metaphor is not about any individual human beings, it is about the 2 different types of human labourers working in the field/world (Cain) as opposed to the shepherd types (Abel)
Sons of ‘Adam’
I believe we, like Adam, are evolved "dust of the earth" (stardust) into which God "breathes the seed of a soul" (inseminates us) and we are to germinate and develop our "living soul" (Spirit) by "overcoming and enduring" this life in "love of God and each other" to the end. We each will produce as much agape love (spiritual fruit) as our life circumstances will permit - some 30-fold, some 60-fold, some 100-fold as in Mark 4:14-20
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
Mark 4:26, Thus is the kingdom of God, as though a man should cast seed into the earth, then sleep and rise, night and day, and the seed should sprout without his knowing it. For of itself the earth bears the crop, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.
Luke 17:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Temples are NOT "sown" and lightning IS quanta which is why we will not "see" Jesus until we are "born again" as Spirit upon our physical death!
Who plants a temple? Why would Jesus describe the Kingdom of God as if a man "planted a seed in the earth and it grew on its own" if He was referring to a temple?
We can’t take the metaphors too far or they lose their relevance and become ‘mixed’ and confused (or rather maybe it’s that we need to be considerate of others understanding of the metaphoric)
We each have various intellectual and intuitive areas where we have been taught and have develop and refine various ‘models’ but I think we need to be able to understand that they are ‘models’ describing social and societal ‘things’ based on the written ‘forms’
Who plants a temple? Why would Jesus describe the Kingdom of God as if a man "planted a seed in the earth and it grew on its own" if He was referring to a temple?
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
I know you have a negative view of the human body, Mystic, but God calls it a temple. To me it is a holy sanctuary for my spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
I know you have a negative view of the human body, Mystic, but God calls it a temple. To me it is a holy sanctuary for my spirit.
Actually, I do not have a negative view of the human body. I just recognize its temporary purpose in housing our Spirit "seeded" by God. I can agree that it is a temple in that sense, but that does not erase its primary purpose as the "soil" in which our Spirit is "seeded" by God, IMO. We honor God when we act out of agape love which is not easy in this world. That was made abundantly clear by Jesus. But that is the "fruit" of the Spirit that God wants from us according to Jesus. All the other religious nonsense and dogma is of human origin and is largely irrelevant, IMO.
I believe we, like Adam, are evolved "dust of the earth" (stardust) into which God "breathes the seed of a soul" (inseminates us) and we are to germinate and develop our "living soul" (Spirit) by "overcoming and enduring" this life in "love of God and each other" to the end. We each will produce as much agape love (spiritual fruit) as our life circumstances will permit - some 30-fold, some 60-fold, some 100-fold as in Mark 4:14-20
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
Hi MysticPhD;
While I like your metaphor of a plant, I think the various versions of the Sower and the Seed are allegories (rather than metaphors) and there is more meaning to the text, especially since this allegory repeats itself in so many different versions.
For example, In the New Testament it is "the Sower and the Seed".
In Hermas (which was a book included in the 4th century New Testament, C. Sinaiticus), it is called "The tower on the Water".
In the Book of Mormon it is called "the Tree of Life".
In the dead Sea Scrolls it is "the four countries".
My point is that this specific allegory is recognized and repeated in many different texts using different allegories, but the meaning in all versions is the same. The fact that the allegory is repeated in so many versions seems to indicate that there are important lessons underlying this specific allegory type.
While I like your metaphor of a plant, I think the various versions of the Sower and the Seed are allegories (rather than metaphors) and there is more meaning to the text, especially since this allegory repeats itself in so many different versions.
For example, In the New Testament it is "the Sower and the Seed".
In Hermas (which was a book included in the 4th century New Testament, C. Sinaiticus), it is called "The tower on the Water".
In the Book of Mormon it is called "the Tree of Life".
In the dead Sea Scrolls it is "the four countries".
My point is that this specific allegory is recognized and repeated in many different texts using different allegories, but the meaning in all versions is the same. The fact that the allegory is repeated in so many versions seems to indicate that there are important lessons underlying this specific allegory type.
I understand your point, Clear, but I tend to see the "Seed" and "Sower" verses as more complex analogies rather than metaphors or allegories. I believe our Spirits are "spiritual inseminations" (conceptions) producing "spiritual fetuses." I take the Birth of the Spirit Jesus explained to Nicodemus seriously as an actual birth.
I understand your point, Clear, but I tend to see the "Seed" and "Sower" verses as more complex analogies rather than metaphors or allegories. I believe our Spirits are "spiritual inseminations" (conceptions) producing "spiritual fetuses." I take the Birth of the Spirit Jesus explained to Nicodemus seriously as an actual birth.
I see no reason that such patterns of the 4 types in each of these allegories could not be both allegories AND analogies. While I can delineate the allegories because they exist in multiple versions all having the same message, I can't tell how far to take an analogy (though I can think of one). If would be pure speculation on my part to do so.
Good luck coming up with your own models as to what is happening and what is meant.
I see no reason that such patterns of the 4 types in each of these allegories could not be both allegories AND analogies. While I can delineate the allegories because they exist in multiple versions all having the same message, I can't tell how far to take an analogy (though I can think of one). If would be pure speculation on my part to do so.
Good luck coming up with your own models as to what is happening and what is meant.
No luck needed, Clear. I have pondered the additional inspired meanings and "levels" as Meerkat calls them. My focus has been on our INDIVIDUAL roles which I see as primarily reproductive of God's consciousness (for better or worse). If we attach too firmly to this physical existence, we are failing to strengthen and grow our "Spiritual Body" (Character), IMO. I analogize it to being in the physical womb with sentience and power to design our physical body and brain and its attributes before birth. We are crafting the "spiritual abilities" we will have in our Spiritual life, IMO.
I will put this question out there once again because my previous post has mainly fallen on deaf ears. Mystic is the only one so far who has volunteered a response. The question is open to ALL:
What would be the point of punishment after one is dead? It makes no sense!
I will put this question out there once again because my previous post has mainly fallen on deaf ears. Mystic is the only one so far who has volunteered a response. The question is open to ALL:
What would be the point of punishment after one is dead? It makes no sense!
It depends what level the death pertains to - the death of a nation? And nations get raised up to receive their rewards/punishment depending on how they have treated those who are in service to them
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