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Let me reiterate: how special is Christianity? Is it as special as we think it is?
Are we reading scripture and taking it too seriously? to literally? are we convincing ourselves that we *should* believe everything the bible says? if it says the gospel was preached and known everywhere, then we have to believe it is true? As the saying goes: we believe in what we want to believe. Meaning to say....it doesn't have to be true. We just have to accept the belief and believe it is true. We can take something in the bible and say "I am Christian. I am obligated to believe this scripture is true. Therefore, it IS true." But does this person who lived and died in this foreign country think the same way?
Are we supposed to believe that a young woman who lived and died in Alaska during the time of Jesus knew who God was?
There's this idea that those who did not learn or made aware of Jesus or God was made aware of it after they died? meaning there is a "special place" where they learn about God and given the opportunity to accept God. Lets fast forward to modern times... Christianity has only penetrated 31% of the world. What if there is a person in Jamaica that is not affected at all by Christianity?
There's no way the Irishman would or could have heard about Jesus. But according to EscAlaMike's theology, it was his fault that he didn't so he wasn't saved and most likely went to hell. What a deal.
Why are you presuming that the Irishman would have wanted anything to do with Jesus? If he went to hell, it's not because he hadn't heard about Jesus; but rather because He did not seek after God with his whole being and preferred created things to the Creator.
Why are you presuming that the Irishman would have wanted anything to do with Jesus? If he went to hell, it's not because he hadn't heard about Jesus; but rather because He did not seek after God with his whole being and preferred created things to the Creator.
According to what you have posted, the Irishman went to Hell because he didn't choose to follow a God that he never heard of.
Let me reiterate: how special is Christianity? Is it as special as we think it is?
It has had incredible staying power and its influence on creating Western civilization is self-evident. Time will tell, I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
Are we supposed to believe that a young woman who lived and died in Alaska during the time of Jesus knew who God was?
That a benevolent Creator exists is self-evident. It is our responsibility to seek Him out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
What if there is a person in Jamaica that is not affected at all by Christianity?
Jamaica is a Christian country, founded by a Christian empire, existing in the context of a Christian civilization. Everyone in Jamaica has been affected by Christianity in some way.
According to what you have posted, the Irishman went to Hell because he didn't choose to follow a God that he never heard of.
Great theology you've got there.
I have made no claim as to know whether the Irishman is in heaven or hell. If in his life on earth he sought out God, I'm quite certain that he found Him.
You criticize "my theology", yet you haven't put forward a better one. Please propose something better.
I have made no claim as to know whether the Irishman is in heaven or hell. If in his life on earth he sought out God, I'm quite certain that he found Him.
You criticize "my theology", yet you haven't put forward a better one. Please propose something better.
My post made perfectly good sense. It is not possible for a person to seek something he doesn't even know exists. At the time of Christ, nobody in Ireland, Jamaica, or anywhere in the Americas had any way to know Jehovah existed, let alone know they were doomed to Hell if the didn't seek Him out.
If your theology supports that, and you agree with it, that tells us something about you.
BTW, it'd certainly not my role to tell you how to improve your theology.
The gospel was preached to every creature under heaven, according to Paul.
Colossians 1
21And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Yes but that was obviously impossible and so was either hyperbole or just outright BS. It didn't happen just because someone claimed that it did.
Christianity took a great deal of time to spread around the world and even today, 2 out of 3 people are not even cultural Christians, much less devout ones. Today, I suppose that if you're arrogant enough, you could write off two-thirds or more of humanity as it being their own fault / obstinance, but certainly Paul had no basis to claim that the gospel had been delivered to all humans everywhere in his lifetime.
Why? Because man loves sin and himself more than God.
That is a rather huge assumption. It has a strong flavor of "too bad, I got mine, go and burn". In my experience, most Christians are completely un-troubled in any meaningful way by the realization that most humans throughout most of history are doomed. Even their own relatives. Because all they actually care about is that they are part of the few, the proud, the elect.
To my own shame, I took this attitude myself. Completely dismissed the fate of anyone who didn't believe as I did, because of the conceit that I had happened upon the One Correct Hermeneutic for understanding the One True Scripture and the One True God, and that I somehow deserved it as my inheritance (because that's what the NT teaches).
According to Paul, the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven. Whether the Irish man accepted and believed it, we have no way of knowing.
Colossians 1:23
21And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Do you honestly believe that Paul was even aware of people living in Ireland at the same time that he was alive? And if so, how were the other apostles supposed to get to Ireland to preach the Gospel, or was it just going to spread like a mist? Sorry, but Paul said a lot of things that weren't factually true, but they made good press for a new religion that he was trying to promote.
My post made perfectly good sense. It is not possible for a person to seek something he doesn't even know exists. At the time of Christ, nobody in Ireland, Jamaica, or anywhere in the Americas had any way to know Jehovah existed, let alone know they were doomed to Hell if the didn't seek Him out.
If your theology supports that, and you agree with it, that tells us something about you.
BTW, it'd certainly not my role to tell you how to improve your theology.
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