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Yes, all will be given the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, fully understand it and choose to either accept or reject it. If they don't have this opportunity during their mortal life, then they (i.e., in spirit form) will have that opportunity during the time between their death and their resurrection.
Do you believe that repentance is necessary for salvation?
Why does the bolded matter? I don't think anyone defines hell as "pleasant". It's undesirable. As a principle, it need not be any more complicated than that.
I want to avoid turning this topic into a discussion about hell but it matters because the severity of hell is exploited for religion purposes. eg: "Follow OUR rules! Disobey and you will be sent to hell." Leveraging the submission of its followers, a denomination can use its authority to make a biblical place more severe than it actually is. Hell can be defined as different things: a place of nothingness, a place of burning fire and extreme pain, a place of self-reflection, etc.
Yes, and I believe the spirit of man is fully cognizant and able to feel emotions. It's the non-physical part of us and it can indeed repent.
I would just say that I don't see how the metaphysics of that would work. Since we sin in and with our bodies, repentance must necessarily be done in and with our bodies. Repentance entails much more than simply an intellectual exercise.
I would just say that I don't see how the metaphysics of that would work. Since we sin in and with our bodies, repentance must necessarily be done in and with our bodies. Repentance entails much more than simply an intellectual exercise.
Repentance is merely a change of mind and heart, a commitment we make to change our behavior. While it is true that we prove that our repentance is sincere when we no longer sin, but God is certainly capable of judging a repentant heart even if the person is no longer in his physical body.
I would just say that I don't see how the metaphysics of that would work. Since we sin in and with our bodies, repentance must necessarily be done in and with our bodies. Repentance entails much more than simply an intellectual exercise.
Jesus taught that there are sins that don't require the body as an instrument to carry them out. E.g., "A man who lusts in his heart for a woman has committed adultery with her already." Surely you do not think that there aren't such things as impure or improper thoughts, or that a discarnate spirit of a dead person cannot sin just because it lacks a body. Even if you are one who sees the locus of sin as lodged in one's flesh, and might go out and buy a hair shirt or flagellum to help mortify that flesh, it's pretty hard to argue that thinking a blasphemous thought or fantasizing about some form of violence (or the ever-popular sexual sins) are of no concern.
Yes, and I believe the spirit of man is fully cognizant and able to feel emotions. It's the non-physical part of us and it can indeed repent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
I would just say that I don't see how the metaphysics of that would work. Since we sin in and with our bodies, repentance must necessarily be done in and with our bodies. Repentance entails much more than simply an intellectual exercise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
Repentance is merely a change of mind and heart, a commitment we make to change our behavior. While it is true that we prove that our repentance is sincere when we no longer sin, but God is certainly capable of judging a repentant heart even if the person is no longer in his physical body.
Repentance (metanoia) is not "merely" changing one's mind. It denotes a fundamental transformation of one's outlook, vision of the world and oneself, and a new way of loving others and God. All "sin" occurs because of the disordered state of our Spirit (mind/consciousness). Repentance can only occur in our Spirit NOT the "meat" of our physical body.
We are Spirit but most of us identify with the body that nurtures our Spirit. Spirit is the only important part of who and what we are. What kind of Spirit we BECOME is reflected in our "outlook, vision of the world and oneself, and way of loving others and God." That is why repentance is important and can only be done in our Spirit.
Jesus taught that there are sins that don't require the body as an instrument to carry them out. E.g., "A man who lusts in his heart for a woman has committed adultery with her already." Surely you do not think that there aren't such things as impure or improper thoughts, or that a discarnate spirit of a dead person cannot sin just because it lacks a body. Even if you are one who sees the locus of sin as lodged in one's flesh, and might go out and buy a hair shirt or flagellum to help mortify that flesh, it's pretty hard to argue that thinking a blasphemous thought or fantasizing about some form of violence (or the ever-popular sexual sins) are of no concern.
This begs the question of the relationship between the brain/mind and soul. We believe that our human consciousness will continue to exist even absent a physical brain. How much of a role does our physical brain play in committing internal sins/sins of thought, and how will that play out absent a physical brain?
I recently read an article about how a mummified torso of a man living in Ireland was discovered. The torso dated back to 2,000 years ago.
Can you imagine....thousands, even millions of people living in the same time period as Jesus? I wonder what religion they followed. What their beliefs were. What did they think of the afterlife. Did they convert to Christianity? If so, when and what convinced them?
It makes me curious... how come we have physical evidence of things that existed 2,000 years (or more) ago but nothing from anything that was in direct contact with Jesus? eg: the bodies of any of his disciples? or any artifacts that were used by any of His followers?
But it also makes me wonder....it amazes me how a person who could be living in a whole nother country could be living their regular life when something extraordinary and miraculous is happening thousands of miles away.
^
It's good that you are exercising your logic, reason, and imagination;
all great Gifts from God that should be developed and harnessed for a life that is fully-alive in Christ.
But was not Christ ALIVE before the time he walked the earth?
And is not Christ ALIVE forever more after His Resurrection?
Is the Christ of the 2 q's above any 'less Christ' than the "Jesus / direct contact" you propose in your OP?
This begs the question of the relationship between the brain/mind and soul. We believe that our human consciousness will continue to exist even absent a physical brain. How much of a role does our physical brain play in committing internal sins/sins of thought, and how will that play out absent a physical brain?
I take it you no more know the answer to that than I. Except of course I see the brain as absolutely central to thought, which is supported by all available evidence. Also I do not accept the theological concept of "sin". Human mentation is fraught with competing concerns. We struggle to balance those concerns. We don't always do a good job of that, nor always accurately see the potential ramifications of a decision.
For example, perhaps someone would like to take an opportunity to have casual sex, but does not want to catch an STD or cause an unwanted pregnancy or is unsure that the prospective sexual partner is on the same page, expectations-wise. Things like that are the problems with promiscuity, not some random ruleset that someone invented. In fact the ruleset is the problem, really. It gets in the way of clear-headed assessment of options, and in the way even of enjoying whatever benefits a course of action might have. A thing is some mix of benefits and harms, and when you muddy the waters with an alleged divine command, then a person is influenced by things other than actual benefits or harms; they are now operating from fear of alleged divine retribution rather from rational self interest and empathy for others balanced against their own desires or needs.
The irony is that my sexual behavior was always acceptable to Christian sensibilities, and I was never guilty of what Christians claim is sexual sin. But I had far better reasons for making those choices than "because god said so". And I have no motivation to judge someone who made different decisions; they simply decided to take more risks and if they played the odds in a way that worked for them, that's their business and not mine [shrug].
I picked that particular example to make a point, as Christianity is particularly obsessed with sex and sexuality and conformity to its norms in that area -- but it's equally applicable to anything. I pay my taxes and keep accurate books and don't over-invoice my clients and don't drive my car recklessly or while inebriated, just like any good Christian -- but I maintain, for far better reasons and motivations, and those decisions are far less fraught because I don't see it as some sort of struggle against temptation. It is just a question of self control and delayed gratification and minimal harm to myself and others. It isn't some reflection of a cosmic battle between Good and Evil or a struggle for my immortal soul. It is just the best way to live my life with integrity and empathy.
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