Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
June,
In all due respect to Freedom, the reason this cannot be grasped is because it is untrue. Believers are warned to stay away from false doctrines, and this is definitely a false doctrine.
The practical application transcends the physical. If we believe Jesus was/is perfect and He taught that we could do what He does and More... then its possible.
modern day believers just havn't developed the belief yet, it has been lost in the traditions of the Fathers.
As well i completely agree with you, if it was a purely physical pursuit. There would be no chance of success.
The Spirit is the key.
yes, but He also lived and taught, and the truths He taught were blinding when not seen with Spiritual eyes. We must go deeper than the flesh in order to see the impossible come into being.
Man thought many things were impossible, and yet, everyday we overcome physical, mental, and spiritual challenges. When we finally come to the point that there is nothing that can't be overcome, then the fulness will be reality.
I'm familiar with Buddhism, and it has had many successes.
God gave the capacity, Jesus taught the way, and He is the way. His name means, "I shall be powerful when annointed with light" which is spirit. When we take His name upon us, we grow from grace to grace into the perfect day, even the day of our perfecting.
The apostles were annointed and they fulfilled their missions, some to martyrdom, some still walk the earth.
Can't do it on our own, only by the teachings of Christ and receiving a fulness of the Holy Spirit. Our part is to Seek First, Be diligent, Hunger and thirst after righteouness. Ask, Seek, And Knock. It is through our relationship with divinity that we learn the ways of God.
I hope its a little clearer.
There will be other meals to share...lol
godspeed,
freedom
Ah ha!
This helps. I think I might, (might) just possibly understand what you've been talking about here, and your OP. But first, let me clarify with you in order to determine whether I'm getting it/understanding or not:
Are you essentially saying this:
That by His taking on human form in the person of Jesus, that God fully expressed his love, and within that love His unity with and for all of humanity? That God', in being perfect, expressed perfect love in the person of Jesus Christ?
That in order for us, as humans, to attain perfection, and thereby union with God, is in the form of Jesus Christ? That in our accepting Jesus and what He truly taught, in essense, to become truly Christ-like in our lives, that we will attain perfection?
But that in order for us to become perfect, we must fully incorporate Christ into our lives, and in so doing, in truly living/loving as Christ did, that this will result in our being in perfect union with God? That we must develop/evolve in our spirituality to the point where IF we can truly transform our hearts and our minds to be as Christ's (Christ-like) then we will attain perfecion? Perfect union/oneness with God?
(I know I am stumbling over my words in the above, but I am genuinelly trying to get this one...)
Thanks!!!
With anticipation that she's finally (maybe?) got it/understood:
Take gentle care.
P.S. The roast was fantastic!!! You are definately a master chef!
This helps. I think I might, (might) just possibly understand what you've been talking about here, and your OP. But first, let me clarify with you in order to determine whether I'm getting it/understanding or not:
Are you essentially saying this:
That by His taking on human form in the person of Jesus, that God fully expressed his love, and within that love His unity with and for all of humanity? That God', in being perfect, expressed perfect love in the person of Jesus Christ?
Yes, i would only add that God expresses His love in all His creation. His creation does not always choose to express it back.
The 1st commandment is for us to Love, with All our being.
Jesus came not just to be the sacrafice but to teach us how to be like Him. His gift of love allows us to grow from grace to grace, without guilt and a feeling of failure. His gift of the Spirit provides the power of perfection and overcoming. We open the door that He stands and knocks at by desiring to live as He lives.
Quote:
That in order for us, as humans, to attain perfection, and thereby union with God, is in the form of Jesus Christ? That in our accepting Jesus and what He truly taught, in essense, to become truly Christ-like in our lives, that we will attain perfection?
Yes, we are called to take His name upon us. Interpret clearly what He taught and make it part of our being. Then perfection will come. Eyes single to His glory that all else will be added, and we will lack in nothing.
Quote:
But that in order for us to become perfect, we must fully incorporate Christ into our lives, and in so doing, in truly living/loving as Christ did, that this will result in our being in perfect union with God? That we must develop/evolve in our spirituality to the point where IF we can truly transform our hearts and our minds to be as Christ's (Christ-like) then we will attain perfecion? Perfect union/oneness with God?
Beautiful! Perfect description and in so few words.
Quote:
(I know I am stumbling over my words in the above, but I am genuinelly trying to get this one...)
Nope, you get it.
Quote:
Thanks!!!
With anticipation that she's finally (maybe?) got it/understood:
Take gentle care.
Thankyou, hopefully others that have read your post will see what i've been trying (albeit clumsely) explain.
Quote:
P.S. The roast was fantastic!!! You are definately a master chef!
This helps. I think I might, (might) just possibly understand what you've been talking about here, and your OP. But first, let me clarify with you in order to determine whether I'm getting it/understanding or not:
Are you essentially saying this:
That by His taking on human form in the person of Jesus, that God fully expressed his love, and within that love His unity with and for all of humanity? That God', in being perfect, expressed perfect love in the person of Jesus Christ?
That in order for us, as humans, to attain perfection, and thereby union with God, is in the form of Jesus Christ? That in our accepting Jesus and what He truly taught, in essense, to become truly Christ-like in our lives, that we will attain perfection?
But that in order for us to become perfect, we must fully incorporate Christ into our lives, and in so doing, in truly living/loving as Christ did, that this will result in our being in perfect union with God? That we must develop/evolve in our spirituality to the point where IF we can truly transform our hearts and our minds to be as Christ's (Christ-like) then we will attain perfecion? Perfect union/oneness with God?
(I know I am stumbling over my words in the above, but I am genuinelly trying to get this one...)
Thanks!!!
With anticipation that she's finally (maybe?) got it/understood:
Take gentle care.
P.S. The roast was fantastic!!! You are definately a master chef!
Thank you, hopefully others that have read your post will see what i've been trying (albeit clumsely) explain.
Bingo!
Phew! It took June a while, but never let it be said that validation can't come through the mind (and heart!) of an atheist!
To all who gave Freedom a difficult time on this thread:
To my way of understanding, (along with a score of theologians) what he is talking about has merit. It's essentially a mystical concept that in fact, does have an authentic theological and metaphysical basis. In it's most watered-down version, it becomes very "New Age" but none the less, there does exist sound theological thought/arguements behind what Freedom is saying in his OP. It's called Christ-Consciousness. Hence, my really only getting it only when I thought in terms of Buddhist metaphysics. (And isn't that interesting...If, in fact there is a God, and if there is only ONE GOD!?) Hmmm....
Here's a link. It helps to read the whole thing, but in particular (for those who are thinking in the interests of time this fine Saturday morning!) scroll waaaaay down to "A. REDUCTION TO CHRIST AND HIS CROSS: OUTWARD EXPRESSION" Along with B, and C. (etc.) (Or simply google "Christ consciousness")
Freedom, WOW, what perserverence you have shown I understand what you are saying (thanks to the fact that June was able to really hear you and coax you on) I have followed the posts between you two from the onset) and I fully understand your frustration in trying to get a point across in simple words..I have that problem..I know what I know and believe in my heart and mind, but sometimes I just can't seem to make it understood...However I have found that some can be so wrapt up in the debate that they fail to really listen to the other side..Have a great weekend Freedom
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,437,580 times
Reputation: 1463
I agree with freedom, of course we can achieve perfection, otherwise what would be the purpose of our efforts? what value would have Jesus sacrifice?
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you.
What are we doing in order to attain the Christ consciousness?
What are we waiting for the second coming of Christ? when he is born in all our hearts we will experience it.
Like my wise guru stated: the only difference from Christ and you, From Buddha and you, from Krsna and you, is that they made the effort.
What are we waiting for? A saint is a sinner who never gave up.
Thanks for your perseverance freedom it's always enlightening to read your posts.
That we must develop/evolve in our spirituality to the point where IF we can truly transform our hearts and our minds to be as Christ's (Christ-like) then we will attain perfecion? Perfect union/oneness with God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Beautiful! Perfect description and in so few words.
Nope, you get it.
Thankyou, hopefully others that have read your post will see what i've been trying (albeit clumsely) explain.
freedom
For those who attempt to enter heaven outside of faith will not be allow in. "Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone."Romans 9:32
The only perfect description is this:
"What must we do to do the works God requires?"John 6:28
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Grace is not grace if we have to contribute something to our salvation. This belief that we must do something beyond faith is the teaching that damns not saves. Perfection offered by God is free. Your reward of heaven will be based on believing that offer. As the invitation states:
"Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the freegift of the water of life."
This is the narrow road, all others lead to hell...forever. Budda will be crushed and those who follow him. This is your fate: "The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath." Revelation 14:19
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-19-2008 at 10:33 AM..
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,437,580 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
This is the narrow road, all others lead to hell...forever
I happen to disagree with this statement, the narrow road only leads to intolerance, suffering, discrimination and dogmatic thought, which aren't Christian qualities, thinking like this will take you away from to God and not closer.
Think about it, why God gave us discernment, intuition and wisdom? because we were supposed to use them, we are supposed to question, think rationalize, feel, why should we automatically belief?
and why should we wish for the damnation of others? does this really make us perfect? thinking that all good people on earth who believe in God will end up burning in hell for understanding him in a different way that you do is not very Christian
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think I've got it/understand?
