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if you are living in a truck you yourself are close to homeless can't be expected to save the drowning if you yourself are in close of drowning. work on your own stuff 1st and then the way will open for you to help those on the street.
you have already set a good example for him. get an old car or truck and you dont have to sleep in the open, smart move. your other comment about baseball bats is correct, often hanhandlling is actually a street landlord attempting to collect "rent".
LOL, I assume he is a truck driver. My husband lets homeless people sleep in his rig, (while he is driving).
Last edited by Asthedeer; 08-27-2008 at 01:38 PM..
Reason: clarify
Wow! 21 responses so far...and I wondered if this forum was...well...kinda dead from the lack of any response to my last post.
A lot to digest and pray over in what you all said. I will post more thoughts later after I have had a chance to think things through some.
For now...I would just like to respond to those who think I am trucker, living in my rig. I am not a trucker. I live inside a Suburban truck that I ripped the back seats out of. I put in a bunk bed and otherwise converted it into a mini-camper. I have a gym membership and take showers and use the bathroom at various gyms around town (my membership entitles me to use 10 different gyms around the city I live in). I eat out almost everyday...mostly at buffets. Have my own business - window cleaning. Have portable internet that allows me to access the internet anywhere there is a plug, a laptop, camera equipment, etc.. In short I am not your typical guy who lives in his truck.
I choose to live in my truck, statements to the effect that those who choose to live "homeless" have something mentally wrong with them notwithstanding . I'd rather save the money I would otherwise pay for rent and/or not have to work as much to turn around and fork the money earned over to a landlord.
By the way, I don't get offended very easily at all so if anyone has anything to say by all means say it (unless the mods step in and prevent you I guess - if it was up to me you could say anything at all to me).
But that's enough about me - unless anyone really, really wants to discuss me more on this thread. I just thought I would say a little about my "homelessness" to correct some mistaken assumptions about me.
I will post more when I have thought more about what has been said so far.
As much as the problem of how to deal with homeless people as Christians seems unsolvable and perplexing I do believe that the Lord has something to say about it. Hopefully He can lead us as we discuss this to discover what that might be.
I've been reading in Luke lately (lots of good stuff in there). In one place Jesus talks about loving our neighbor.
The day before yesterday I had yet one more homeless panhandler (well...I don't know if he was actually homeless but from the looks and the time of night he approached my truck, it's likely he was) approach me. I did my usual with him. Tried to ignore him as long as I could (the quicker you make eye contact with them the faster they come over asking you for money) and then when he got right next to my driver's window I said "What's up?" in a loud and tough voice. He didn't say anything - wanting me to roll down the window I think. I then said a bit louder and in what I hoped was a tougher voice "What's up?". He then put two of his fingers together and started rubbing them in the universally recognized sign of money.
I said "I don't have any to give you!" twice I think (you usually have to say things like that a few times before they get the point) and that was that. He walked off into the night.
I didn't want him to get mad and come a busting my window out with a baseball bat so I moved and continued working on my laptop in another parking lot (I live in my truck and was working on my laptop).
Anyway...I started wondering about what the Lord would have me do about such encounters. I don't think the way I handled it was loving him as my neighbor. I gots to do better than I did but what?
Giving him money is a cop out and it will just enable him to continue in his lifestyle. The Bible makes clear that he who does not work (or is unwilling to work) does not eat. Most Christian charities that give to the homeless are...shall we say...enabling people and not doing what Christ would want I think.
So...what are we supposed to do?
I mean with regard to loving homeless panhandlers as ourselves?
In my opinion...giving money to organizations that help the homeless is a cop out too. Jesus didn't say "Go and give to someone who will help the homeless". He said "YOU go and love your neighbor!".
Any ideas?
If I was in his shoes I think I would want someone to invite me to their home for some hot chocolate, talk to me by a fireplace about my lifestyle, maybe get to know me better, offer to have me spend the night so that I can get my head straightened up a bit, and then offer to have me shower and eat breakfast in the morning before helping me go and look for work.
You know, that type of thing.
But I ain't got no home to invite him to and if I invited him to sit in my truck...well...let's just say there's not much room in my truck.
I suppose I could invite him in and then drive around looking for any drivethru's that are still open at 1:00 AM (I'm in Canada where everything tends to shut down early - not like the States where a lot of stuff is open 24 hours), buy him something to eat, and then try and talk to him in my cramped quarters or something.
But if I did that with every homeless guy who approaches me...I'd spend most of my day sometimes, doing little more than driving homeless panhandlers around looking for a drivethru.
It's tough knowing what to do it seems...or maybe I'm just hardened in heart such that I don't see with the eyes of Jesus.
While we as followers of Christ are comissioned to do what "thus saith the Lord" we have to at the same time discern; the Holy Spirit will enable you
to do this , to decipher the good and the evil, yes there are homeless people that are mentally ill and that will kill you, but then again you won't know that by looking them, we are called to do greater works for tyhe sake of the Cross and ministry; buy there is a point when you don't put yourself in a compromising place; for an example : Let's say that
you told him to meet you at a fast food joint and offer to but him a burger then this would have been the safe thing to do. inviting him into your home/truck, especially alone would not be a wise choice; and God wants us to be wise; Ask God for wisdom King Solomon did; and Pray when you approach these type situations; we are called to be salt and light!! But you can't be light if you're not alive (no pun intended)
We will keep you lifted up in our prayers
My $02 cents
God Bless you
Wow! 21 responses so far...and I wondered if this forum was...well...kinda dead from the lack of any response to my last post.
A lot to digest and pray over in what you all said. I will post more thoughts later after I have had a chance to think things through some.
For now...I would just like to respond to those who think I am trucker, living in my rig. I am not a trucker. I live inside a Suburban truck that I ripped the back seats out of. I put in a bunk bed and otherwise converted it into a mini-camper. I have a gym membership and take showers and use the bathroom at various gyms around town (my membership entitles me to use 10 different gyms around the city I live in). I eat out almost everyday...mostly at buffets. Have my own business - window cleaning. Have portable internet that allows me to access the internet anywhere there is a plug, a laptop, camera equipment, etc.. In short I am not your typical guy who lives in his truck.
I choose to live in my truck, statements to the effect that those who choose to live "homeless" have something mentally wrong with them notwithstanding . I'd rather save the money I would otherwise pay for rent and/or not have to work as much to turn around and fork the money earned over to a landlord.
By the way, I don't get offended very easily at all so if anyone has anything to say by all means say it (unless the mods step in and prevent you I guess - if it was up to me you could say anything at all to me).
But that's enough about me - unless anyone really, really wants to discuss me more on this thread. I just thought I would say a little about my "homelessness" to correct some mistaken assumptions about me.
I will post more when I have thought more about what has been said so far.
As much as the problem of how to deal with homeless people as Christians seems unsolvable and perplexing I do believe that the Lord has something to say about it. Hopefully He can lead us as we discuss this to discover what that might be.
I do apologize then. It sounded like you were being approached at a truck stop or something, maybe my mind is just on that because of my husband. Truck=semi truck stop to me lol.
I don't really see any difference in what you are doing then living in a fifth wheel, etc. Which we will be doing for a while (hopefully).
If people want to get bent out of shape about that I suggest they think about people in other countries that live worse then our pets do in this country.
I agree with another person that said your neighbor is not just anyone that comes up to you either. But Jesus gave no limitations to the verses I posted below.
He did'nt say only if they have a house, or a job, or anything else.
I trust God protects those who obey Him in any situation. There are many many examples of this in His word.
Living here in Az you get to see a bunch of people claiming to be homeless, hungry, stranded, jobless, needing a bus ticket, and will work for food signs. We see them on the on ramps daily.
When I first moved here, I felt bad for them continually, and gave to them whatever I had in my pockets at the time, no matter how much I had. Then, since I run a business, I asked a person holding a "will work for food" sign, if he wanted a job. I was gonna feed him for free until his first paycheck, and then try to help him get an apartment. My heart was right, and I felt his need was heavy. WAS I SHOCKED at his response. He told me that there is no way I could pay him what he was making with that sign. In fact as he dove a little deeper into conversation, I realized he had a place to live, a car, and this was his JOB! After that, I never asked them again, any of them.
My heart was hurting one day, and I prayed about it. Then it was like God had said, "it isn't your worry", and let it be. Continue with your what your heart convicts you of, and leave those people who will not work to me!
2Th 3:10
For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.
So after this when I see people in need, truly in need, and I help in whatever fashion I can at the time. Most times, these people DON'T ask for help. They truly want to make it on their own, but have fallen on hard times. But pride, I suppose, hardens their heart. It is up to God through us to melt that hardness away, and give without ceasing. This is working for the Kingdom of God! It gets paid forward, in time, and they do unto others, what has been done TO them.
I've had a chance to think about this some over the last day or so (along with meeting a few other homeless panhandlers) and wanted to make a few additional comments.
First off I want to say a couple of things which should be self-evident on a Christian forum but may not be to everyone who views this thread. Not to mention that many here might not even consider themselves Christians or may think themselves to be but in fact are not.
As a Christian, that is...as a follower and believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible should be our guide for everything pertaining to life and godliness. For knowing how to live in a godly manner and how to treat others. The Bible is the most relevant and authoritative source of what Jesus did and taught and what he passed along to his apostles and through them to others. Even down to us today.
So in dealing with the issue of how best to love a homeless panhandler as our neighbor we should look to the Bible for answers. Not to modern psychiatry, psychology, common sense, our cultural values and norms, or anything else that man sometimes puts great stock in.
I don't have a corner on Biblical truth but based on what I have read and understood recently and in the past here is my take on what the Bible says about this issue (and what I believe God would want us to do about it).
Panhandling is a sinful pattern of behaviour from a Biblical standpoint. It violates several commands of God to work for the food that we eat, to be above reproach, and to give glory to God by our lives.
As such...as a sinful pattern of behaviour...it involves a choice on the part of the panhandler. A choice to engage in that type of behaviour. No less than the alcoholic chooses to drink, or the adulterer to get involved in an extra-marital affair, or the thief to steal.
It is a common fallacy in modern times to think that many of these types of behaviours are caused by a mental illness, having been denied something as a child, or otherwise such that the person engaging in such behaviours is somehow less responsible for their behaviour than would otherwise be the case (if they had experienced a wonderful childhood for example).
The Bible makes clear that sin and sinful behaviour stems from a rebellious choice of the will to go against the grain of what is right by God....
Romans 6:12 - "...do not let sin reign in your mortal body..."
1 Corinthians 10:13 - "No temptation has overtaken you except that which is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but who will, with the temptation, also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it."
Many other verses point to sin being a choice as being the case.
Incidentally whatever verses I quote are my own paraphrase from the King James Version (which is not copyrighted - if anyone wonders). Any similarity to the wording from other versions (which are copyrighted) is purely coincidental.
The homeless panhandler is making a choice. A sinful choice. To engage in a behaviour which is ungodly.
Now when I say homeless panhandler I am not referring to persons in great need who sit by the road and beg such as may be found in some South American countries for example. Where they have no social net to help them in their predicament. Persons who have lost a limb, are blind, or are otherwise incapacitated and unable to find work very easily, if at all.
I am referring to the able bodied man who could work if he wanted to work but who instead chooses to panhandle for a living. Who lives off the generosity (misguided as it sometimes may be) of others who will give money to him just for the asking.
For the sake of discussion I refer to an able bodied man (most panhandlers that I meet are men). But what I say is just as applicable to a woman who chooses to panhandle as well.
If we agree on the homeless panhandler making a sinful choice the next question is how do we, as Christians, deal with him?
Here again the Bible says something that we as Christians would do well to take into account...as has been quoted in the previous post.
2 Thessalonians 3:10 - "For when we were with you, we commanded you, that if anyone will not work, then he should not eat."
I believe the above passage in context applies perfectly to the homeless panhanlder that I speak of. Someone who will not work to meet his own need for food.
Churches in the New Testament often had meals together (something I think we should return to doing by the way). Paul is saying that if someone is just taking advantage of what is offered by others, as a way of life, and eating freely without having a corresponding willingness to work so as to pay for the food they eat then...they are not to be fed.
Plain and simple. If a person will not lift a finger to help themselves by working for the food that they need then we...as Christians are not to give them food. The resulting hunger that occurs is meant to drive that person to break from their sinful pattern of behaviour and start working to meet their needs without having to depend on others.
All to the glory of God.
By giving money or food to a panhandler, who is not willing to work to pay for their own food, I am not lining up with what Paul says to do. In that sense I am actually working against God's intended way of helping the panhandler break from his sinful pattern of behaviour. I am not loving the panhandler for it would be best for him if I lined up with God and did not continue to give him a handout.
Now I am NOT advocating nor do I believe that Paul is advocating that we just go in our hearts..."Homeless panhandler...sinful behaviour...don't work...don't eat..and that's that!". We need to have sympathy. For sure. We need to be compassionate. Tempered with mercy. For sure.
But we also need to side with what God says to do. For the benefit of the panhandler (so that they might break from their sinful behaviour) and society at large.
From a purely natural perspective, without reference to what the Bible says, let me say this....
The way we deal with a panhandler either contributes to increasing the numbers of panhandlers or decreasing it. One or the other. If we just give to a panhandler without connecting that giving to a need for repentance on their part or to work (along with what Paul said to do) then it seems to me that we are just contributing to the increase of panhandling.
If no one gave panhandlers any money at all...well...there would be no panhandlers. That's guaranteed. Panhandlers are not dumb. They wouldn't continue to do it if there was no money to be made for free - without having to work for it.
The reason panhandlers continue to panhandle is that they get money...for free. The reason that more and more panhandle is because word gets out that there is money to be had...for free. So why work for it?
Panhandlers talk. They figure out where the money is good and go there.
If no one gave them money (or food) they would give it up.
I should know...I have at times frequented soup kitchens and spoken with many who live the homeless lifestyle. I have at various times been homeless myself and lived among homeless people - either by choice or as a result of unfortunate circumstances or bad choices I myself made in life.
Just a couple thoughts from reading your post, Carlos.
I agree with Blue, we don't always know who is doing what. Just because they stand on a corner does not mean they really are'nt in need of help. I have come across people whos vehicles have broken down etc.
If I can offer them help I do that first, otherwise I give what the Lord leads, and slip a note or a track in there, hoping someday they may come to Christ.
Next, the verse in 2 Thes., is talking about those in the church. I don't see where it says homeless, or unbelievers.
Any needy person that is not a Believer in Christ is in sin. God will judge what they do with what was given them.
I understand what you are saying about not giving to those that make a living off of pandhandling. I usually know when that is the case. We can offer help or give them a track. You know if they refuse then they are doing it for the wrong reasons.
So my final thought is to ask the Father what He would have you to do when you are faced with those situations.
I think you do what you can and how you feel God is leading you in the situation. I am always praying for God to bring people into my path who need help. I sort of trust the leading of the Spirit to know what to do. Like one gal said, as a women you want to be safe. Different for you in your truck. Actually your situation sounds extremely creative!!!
Our church goes to the next town, it's bigger, and serves at a soup line one Friday night a month. We give to groups who help people who need it. Our church who is in the process of building is planning an emergency women's shelter down the line and a counseling center. Their focus is on serving the community.
So many people do need food but they need spiritual food even more. I would help when you are lead but also if the door opens talk about what God has done for you and how much he loves up all and has given Christ for our sins.
Carlos, how are we to know exactly the reason a person is panhandling And why should I assume he is sinning, because he is panhandling?
Hi blue! Thanks for asking.
I've only really formed a conviction on how the Lord would have me deal with panhandlers in the last couple of days, as a result of reading the posts here, thinking, praying, and reading the Bible. I am saying that only to say that my thinking may still need some refinement but if I may venture to take a shot at your questions Blue here is what I think off the top of my head...
Let me, if I may, rephrase the questions you asked a bit...
In regard to someone stealing something...
How are we to know why they are stealing? And why should we assume he is sinning because he is stealing something?
In regard to someone committing adultery...
How are we to know why they are doing so? And why should we assume they are sinning because he is sleeping with another person other than their spouse?
I believe panhandling, is at it's core...no different. It reveals, just like the outward act of stealing or the outward act of committing adultery that the heart is not right with God. That the person panhandling is doing something that displeases God and is not right - based on what the Bible says about not working and living off the generosity of others as being wrong or sinful pattern of behaviour.
There is a proverb that I think is relevant here...at least in principal...
Psalm 37:25 - "I have been young, and now I am old; yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his children begging bread.
While not directly addressing panhandlers...it's a rather modern phenomenon that I do not believe was known in Biblical times, the principal I see in the above verse is that the righteous will be provided for. By strong implication...by God.
That He is a living God who will look out for the righteous, or those who do right by Him, such that they will never be forsaken (set adrift to fend for themselves) and be forced to go around begging for their daily bread. I can attest to God's provision in my own life, even today, but that's another story .
I have met I think hundreds of panhandlers in my life who have come up to me and asked me for money for this or that supposed valid reason. I"ve never counted but given that I tend to meet 1 or 2 per day and that I have been living where I am for about 4 years...well it adds up. And of all those panhandlers that I have met I think only ONE was legitimately and possibly in need, but even that was not for certain. And that ONE didn't even look like a panhandler. He was nicely dressed and an otherwise normal looking fellow.
I daresay that people who panhandle are doing so as a reflection of rebellion to God's righteous standard of working to meet their own needs if one can at all do so. I can say that confidently based on my experience not only living among the homeless in the woods at one time in my life and hanging out at soup kitchens and the like, but also from meeting hundreds of them since then.
I am not talking about people in real need who have no form of government or church support to help them, who are incapacitated and who resort to begging to meet their needs (I believe such people are not trusting God either but that they are not the same as panhandlers).
I am talking about people who make it a habit to go around in parking lots from person to person asking for spare change. Or who stand outside convenience and video stores and ask for change from every person who walks in and out. Who spend whatever money they get on booze, drugs, cigarettes, or all three. Only to be seen again the next day...doing the same thing. Who don't want to work even when offered work. Who don't even use the resources that are available to them where they are or who also might use them while continuing to panhandle. Because...well...it's free money.
I don't know how many panhandlers have told me they are hungry. In the area where I live one has to try and go hungry! I say that sincerely. There are so many agencies giving out food at various times of the day and 6 days a week that one can literally get fat on the amount of food being given out. One can have free and delicious breakfast (all you can eat), an absolutely incredible lunch at a church (usually they have seconds and lots of it), a late afternoon dinner at another place, followed up by another dinner at 7:00 PM at yet another church. And that's just for starters! I am not talking about chintzy meals here. I am talking wholesome, filling, wonderful meals - I've had them all. Better than most of us would make for ourselves.
I haven't even talked about getting clothes, and shoes, and work boots, and all manner of other things. It's all over the place where I live. You can live quite easily as a homeless panhandler where I live. Many do.
When I have encouraged or otherwise made known to some, that these places exist (places that are well known among the homeless and panhandlers) they ignore what I say and usually go their way. I guess because they realize they are meeting someone who knows the ropes and can't be fooled very easily - I don't know. I just know that they don't have anything to say when I tell them that's it's near impossible to be hungry where I live in view of all the places giving away free food. Most all know these places exist. They just want the free money.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about turning my back on them and not helping them according to their real needs. Only that their real need is to repent of their wrongdoing, get right with God, and stop making excuses.
I am saying that we, as Christians, need to stop being deceived into giving panhandlers money in a misguided belief that we are loving them. To love them is to side with what God says to do. It is to not give them that which they are asking to be given for free. Money or food.
Make them work for it. Give them a rag or sponge and have them wash your car. Shine your shoes. Whatever. Don't give them free money or food. Doing so enables them to continue their sinful behaviour. Giving them free food and money that is not connected to having them work for it is to ignore what God says about dealing with someone who is living off the generosity of others while not being willing to work.
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. I'd rather save the money I would otherwise pay for rent and/or not have to work as much to turn around and fork the money earned over to a landlord. 
Wisdom
And why should I assume he is sinning, because he is panhandling?
