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Old 01-21-2009, 10:01 AM
 
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(John 18:37-38) 37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."
38 Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?"


Jesus was nice to repentant sinners, He was nice to His disciples and people who responded well to the truth but Jesus was not nice to the purveyors of false doctrine, if you disagree please give me scripture because I myself can't find any.
Jesus would get very angry with ones who tried to preach false doctrine in fact when Jesus was invited to a House of a Pharisee for lunch it devolved into one of the worst conflicts Jesus ever had

(Matthew 23:29-37)

29" Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,30 and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31 "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 "Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers.
33 "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?


People like to say that Jesus was harsh to just the religious types but nice to everyone else using the story of Matthew but Matthew was seeking and invited Jesus to a banquet at his home so Jesus could give his friends the truth as well (tax collectors, prostitutes) I see no such evidence in the bible that Jesus was only harsh to religious types, this is a "categorical error". Jesus was harsh to the hardhearted, rebellious sinner but was friendly with open minded & openhearted to the truth regardless if they were a Pharisee or not.

Nicodemus was one such Pharisee. He was one of the top Pharisees who was open minded and openhearted searching for the truth, Jesus engaged civil yet a stern conversation with a man who believed Him to be from God.

(John 3:1-3)
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."


Jesus was telling the top Pharisee that he must be born again, that was a slap in the face of Nicodemus for a man of his stature, basically Jesus was telling Him he was going to hell.

I keep hearing people saying to be like Jesus in our daily walk and when witnessing to others. I believe this as well that we must take our cues from Jesus when dealing with people but we can't afford in the name of truth to deal softly soul condemning error because truth matters. Truth matters more than how people feel about it so it was with Jesus.

I am not saying, that we be mean spirited and intentionally make people feel bad, that is definitely not the objective but we should never compromise the truth. We can say the truth all nice and sweet but we must make sure we stick to the truth in an unvarnished way, we should never get the idea that nice and sweet, especially kindness in the fruit of the spirit style love ever requires you to tone down the truth. The tone can undermine the message of the truth and for those who say like Pilate, "What is truth?", "you can never know truth?" well then your statement can not be true if there is no truth.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-21-2009 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: MI
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You are a stumbling block to me, Fundamentalist. I don't think you'll care enough to do any soul searching through prayer, but I am tired of you beating me/people down. Seriously. How many people are you going to push away?

Ask me for Scriptures with your please. Forget it. They've all been handed out and you blind yourself. I've had enough.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
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Another very good post, Fundy. Thank you.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
You are a stumbling block to me, Fundamentalist. I don't think you'll care enough to do any soul searching through prayer, but I am tired of you beating me/people down. Seriously. How many people are you going to push away?

Ask me for Scriptures with your please. Forget it. They've all been handed out and you blind yourself. I've had enough.
I am not intentionally trying to beat people down and I am sorry you feel that way but I must follow where the Holy Spirit leads me whether I be ostracized or tortured in the name of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I can not and will not sacrifice the truth for the sake of peace.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-21-2009 at 10:54 AM..
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Fundamentalist;

I am not saying, that we be mean spirited and intentionally make people feel bad, that is definitely not the objective but we should never compromise the truth. We can say the truth all nice and sweet but we must make sure we stick to the truth in an unvarnished way, we should never get the idea that nice and sweet, especially kindness in the fruit of the spirit style love ever requires you to tone down the truth. The tone can undermine the message of the truth and for those who say like Pilate, "What is truth?", "you can never know truth?" well then your statement can not be true if there is no truth
Romans 2:4 Or do you have contempt for the wealth of his kindness, forbearance, and patience, and yet do not know that God’s kindness leads you to repentance?

‘You will listen carefully yet will never understand, you will look closely yet will never comprehend. For the heart of this people has become dull; they are hard of hearing, and they have shut their eyes, so that they would not see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts.


preseneted with humility and kindness
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
You are a stumbling block to me, Fundamentalist. I don't think you'll care enough to do any soul searching through prayer, but I am tired of you beating me/people down. Seriously. How many people are you going to push away?

Ask me for Scriptures with your please. Forget it. They've all been handed out and you blind yourself. I've had enough.
StirringWaters, you just hit the nail on the head, we are not to be a stumbling block to our breathren. Like Paul said,"If I must refrain from eating meat because it is a stumbling block to my brother, then I will refrain from eating meat." The stumbling block can go both ways. I know literalists and fundamentalists get a bad rap in most circles, but do you not think that a liberal perspective could be a stumbling block to some. I mean we have some here who would prefer to cast out the OT and the epistles of Paul, and to me that would be a stumbling block. Others who call the writers of the Bible barbaric and unevolved, that too is a stumbling block to me.

We really must explore the scriptures to find the truth and stop picking and choosing as we all like to do to make our own perspective right. We must all be willing to interprit the scriptures witht he scriptures and stop throwing away what we dont like.

I like what you have to say most of the time, but I believe you may be misunderstand Fundy at this particular time.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: RV Park
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I think I understand what you're saying Fundy, but if we feel the Father's heart I believe we'll get a better understanding of how Agape love displays itself.

Jesus was breaking up the stronghold of those that felt they had a monopoly on truth, so a heavy hand was required to break up their perceived regime. But it was not a hard line blow that He dealt when He wrapped up His mission.

"Father, forgive them...for they know not what they do..."
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:17 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,446,997 times
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Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I think I understand what you're saying Fundy, but if we feel the Father's heart I believe we'll get a better understanding of how Agape love displays itself.

Jesus was breaking up the stronghold of those that felt they had a monopoly on truth, so a heavy hand was required to break up their perceived regime. But it was not a hard line blow that He dealt when He wrapped up His mission.

"Father, forgive them...for they know not what they do..."
or we can say, that is why Jesus came and gave us the rest of the revelation and tell the Pharisees and anybody else listening, wrong religion, wrong attitude. The Pharisees were never seeking God in their truth which is why they were blinded.
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:27 PM
 
178 posts, read 341,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I think I understand what you're saying Fundy, but if we feel the Father's heart I believe we'll get a better understanding of how Agape love displays itself.

Jesus was breaking up the stronghold of those that felt they had a monopoly on truth, so a heavy hand was required to break up their perceived regime. But it was not a hard line blow that He dealt when He wrapped up His mission.

"Father, forgive them...for they know not what they do..."
True. Common sense is not a foreign concept to God. All situations require different approaches. God will lead you in all encounters if we put His will first. Sometimes the feelings of urgency and pride get in the way of the plan God has for us. We must always be ready and pray for guidance everyday for any situation that we encounter. Remember it is God that is working through you. We must let it happen as He commands. If we are getting a negative reaction from people, we must acknowledge this and re-examine our approach. Stick to God's word in all situations and always follow Jesus' example. The only one's who felt ill will and hatred towards him were the people whose "authority" was challenged and those that blindly followed them.
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:39 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,446,997 times
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Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
True. Common sense is not a foreign concept to God. All situations require different approaches. God will lead you in all encounters if we put His will first. Sometimes the feelings of urgency and pride get in the way of the plan God has for us. We must always be ready and pray for guidance everyday for any situation that we encounter. Remember it is God that is working through you. We must let it happen as He commands. If we are getting a negative reaction from people, we must acknowledge this and re-examine our approach. Stick to God's word in all situations and always follow Jesus' example. The only one's who felt ill will and hatred towards him were the people whose "authority" was challenged and those that blindly followed them.
Well let's be fair, Nicodemus authority was threatened also but even he saw that Jesus was who He said, He was because Nicodemus wanted to know the truth. Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites because they were not seeking the things of God. If the Pharisees had been putting God first in their search for truth then they would have believed just like Nicodemus but the Pharisees were unrepentant sinners looking out for only themselves. "People who followed the Pharisees" were hardhearted, rebellious, unrepentant sinners as well and just as much to blame than the Pharisees; they did not want to hear the truth which is why they hated Jesus. Ironically the Pharisee's way (Law of Moses) was actually easier then what Jesus was teaching.
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