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When Jesus Christ became Christ Jesus he rose to be seated at the right hand of God.
Today we have Christ within us. Christ is the head of the body.
As a component of the body of believers, all of His brothers and sisters, He has a far better position than elder. He is our Head.
The head of the entire body.
Not a mere elder of a small divided denomination, but the entire combined body of all Christians, going back to the day of Pentecost, through centuries, through today, and right up until the second coming. He is head over all that!
A far higher most exalted position.
So is your argument that Jesus is over qualified.......
But still, hypothetically, Jesus does not fit the scriptural requirements for Deacon/Elder. According to your earlier post he could not counsel a married couple or give advice to a couple with a troubled child as he has no experience in those areas.
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn
I'd be perfectly happy if Jesus was an Elder at my church.... oh yea... He's not qualified.
I'm not you bashing here.... just trying to make a point. It sounds almost ludicrous (to me) that Jesus wouldn't qualify... but I digress.
The requirements in Timothy and Titus are many, and NONE can be perfectly fulfilled. So... what do we do? Eldership is Biblical... we probably all (mostly) agree... so if a local body of believers does not have anyone who "fits" ... and Elders are Biblical.... what then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn
I totally disagree. The requirements can, and have been perfectly fulfilled. In the congregation I attend (well, used to, looking around now), the elders do fit the requirements. If there is a congregation that has none that "fits", then there isn't an elder there until someone does.
I speak from experience... when I say "none" can perfectly fill the requirements of Eldership. I'll give a few simple examples... and Elder is married, and his wife dies... is he removed? (not married to one wife) ... an Elder goes out for diner and has a glass of wine, and is observed by a member of the congregation who is fighting alcoholism... (poor witness) ... an Elder greets JW at his door and does not invite them in (hospitality) ... I could go on but I hope you see how life is a dynamic process and circumstances change. I do agree that Elders should be removed for bad moral behavior, but like you and I, they are also entitled to repent and be restored.... but that is a whole different topic.... key word astocheo,
Lets observe the disciples, they'd make great Elders, I'm sure you would agree... lets see... pagans, tax collecters, unmarried, cheats, liars, murders, shall I go on? and what about the company they kept?... Again not trying to diminish anyone's thinking... but who can perfectly fill roles of leadership? and who gets to decide what perfection looks like? Perfection should be regarded as maturity in Christ... not being Christ. I suspect many will argue... but that too is another topic.
Titus and Timothy ... the requirements for Elders... is God breathed. God expects perfection through Jesus... but who can claim to be perfect? other than Jesus. Phil. 3:12-15
and He doesn't even qualify for Eldership (according to some). Each of us are capable of meeting these requirements, in Titus and Timothy, but not all are who hold the role of servant leadership can score 100% in each category. The requirements are targets, but Eldership is basically established to :
1) find leaders of high moral caliber
2) find leaders who demonstrate who exhibit ,spiritual fruits of success, in their own life
3) find leaders who are spiritually mature and demonstrate outward growth
4) find leaders who are above reproach
5) find leaders who can teach, not only through intellect, but by how they live
Ultimately Elders provide examples and patterns to follow, by their servanthood.... through which we should see Christ's blessings at work.
I must point out.... (NET)1 Cor 7:25 With regard to the question about people who have never married, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion as one shown mercy by the Lord to be trustworthy.
Paul is stating his opinion... but within context of God's teachings... and therefore this whole chapter must be understood in the context of Paul's opening statement. To do otherwise is to take it out of context.
Paul is giving an opinion contrary to God's will?
God said it is not good for man to be alone.
God told us to be fruitful and multiply.
In Timothy, a church leader should be a husband. Doesn't a church leader serve the Lord?
It seeem to me that those passages Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians Chapt. 7 are all his opinion and not God's design for us or for "Church leaders."
So Paul wasn't writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit then?
We all have opinions... and so did Paul. Think of it like this... and please, I'm just making an example... don't get stuck on the text of my example.
When the "many" were fed from the loaves and fishes... how was this done?
To say it was a miracle is correct, but to say what physically took place... is opinion ... however... opinion should stay within God's other teachings or examples. Was it manna? did the loaves and fish multiply? is it like "other " miracles?... we could answer yes to any of these options... but the "opinion" is not inspired but the miracle is.
I believe when such is the case... God is allowing some wiggle room for application... and that's just an opinion.
Paul is giving an opinion contrary to God's will?
God said it is not good for man to be alone.
God told us to be fruitful and multiply.
In Timothy, a church leader should be a husband. Doesn't a church leader serve the Lord?
It seeem to me that those passages Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians Chapt. 7 are all his opinion and not God's design for us or for "Church leaders."
Paul is not giving an opinion contrary to God's will.
In Timothy it does not say should be a husband... it say's
"the husband of one wife"... and I interpret that as saying "not more than one wife at a time".... however if the word "should" is in the text.... I did not see that.... and I also believe not having a wife is also OK. (opinion)
Yes church leaders serve the Lord... but they do not "have" to be married. My opinion is I'd like them to be married.... but spouses do not live forever and nowhere does it say in Timoth or Titus "if a wife dies then the elder is disqualified". The key is..... above reproach.... and blamless.
2. Suck-up to and agree with everything the Pastor says, then be appointed over a youth ministry or prayer group.
3. Follow the Pastor around like his shadow.
3. Put on a good "front" and give the appearance you are sinless and live a perfect life.
4. Quote scriptures and pretend you know everything about the bible.
and last, but not least-
4. Know how to "work a crowd" and be a good showman.
spoken in truth... but bitter truth. So I guess the next logical question is... what do you think it should look like? You have to admit this is a very negative post.
We all have opinions... and so did Paul. Think of it like this... and please, I'm just making an example... don't get stuck on the text of my example.
When the "many" were fed from the loaves and fishes... how was this done?
To say it was a miracle is correct, but to say what physically took place... is opinion ... however... opinion should stay within God's other teachings or examples. Was it manna? did the loaves and fish multiply? is it like "other " miracles?... we could answer yes to any of these options... but the "opinion" is not inspired but the miracle is.
I believe when such is the case... God is allowing some wiggle room for application.
.. and that's just an opinion.
Yep. My point exactly.
"We all have opinions."
"God is allowing some wiggle room for application."
We all have opinions... and so did Paul. Think of it like this... and please, I'm just making an example... don't get stuck on the text of my example.
When the "many" were fed from the loaves and fishes... how was this done?
To say it was a miracle is correct, but to say what physically took place... is opinion ... however... opinion should stay within God's other teachings or examples. Was it manna? did the loaves and fish multiply? is it like "other " miracles?... we could answer yes to any of these options... but the "opinion" is not inspired but the miracle is.
I believe when such is the case... God is allowing some wiggle room for application... and that's just an opinion.
I don't let my opinion OVERRIDE what the Bible teaches. We have to be mindful of the fact that it's not about what I SAY OR WHAT YOU SAY---IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS AND TEACHES ON ANY SUBJECT OR TOPIC.
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