What's your explanation? (crucifixion, belief, exodus, scriptures)
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"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away,
not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Matthew 5:17,18
Well, that shoots the idea that any of the Ten was done away with.
Every seventh day does not necessarily mean every "date" that is evenly divisable by seven. It means 6-on 1-off...or six days of work, one day of rest.
10 comandments are nothing but a starting point. For example, "Thou shalt not covet thy nieghbors man-servant..." (I hope I got that quote perfect.) The word "servant" in Hebrew means "slave." Therefore, since it is not ok for one person to "covet" someone else's slave, it follows that it is acceptable to own slaves. Since the idea of owning another human being is completely evil, there must be something wrong with the 10 commandments. What is wrong is that they are ONLY a starting point.
As these two questions could easily become a debate, and I would like to avoid that in this thread, please limit your response to the two (ok, three)questions I am about to ask.
To preface... pretty much every christian I have ever met has concured, the ten comandments are quite simple, universal, and apply to every beleiver without condition... If they are not, please say why.
- the sabath (7th and last day of the week) is comanded to be your holy day... if you worship sunday, the 1st day on any calander, instead of the 7th, what is the teaching that endorsed that?
- it is comanded to make no graven image of anything of heaven, or things of earth. I can't personaly remember the last time I went into a church that didn't have a cross in it. That strikes me as an image of something of earth that has great heavenly signifigance. If the cross immage is something you're into, how has that been tought to you?
If these 2 comandments are not part of what you believe, please respond with the explanation you have been tought... and again, please limit your responses to the questions asked... I'm not trying to start a riot here.
The 10 Commandments were fullfilled by Jesus' sacrifice. The 10 Commandments are embodied in the two commands Jesus gave us (from Matthew Ch 22; emphasis mine):
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
If we keep these two commandments, we keep them all. However simple it may seem, it is much harder in practice.
Last edited by mams1559; 02-27-2009 at 10:00 PM..
Reason: typo
The Sabbath is mentioned many times in the NT.....not trying to be arguementative; I also believe we should set aside a day to worship...any day...now, tell me why I believe this...as I've tried to show others why I believe it...and then I find myself seeking all over again...
I should say please.
That's ok. Not as a commandment. The Sabbath was for Israel, not the church furthermore the Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. The only time the Sabbath is mentioned in the NT is while Paul was addressing the Jews, “to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews” but once Paul went on to the gentiles there was no mention of the sabbath again.
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away,
not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Matthew 5:17,18
Well, that shoots the idea that any of the Ten was done away with.
Fundamentalist...
This is what I find when I try to explain....
So? Your thoughts?
Fundamentalist...
This is what I find when I try to explain....
So? Your thoughts?
I understand but the Sabbath was never carried over as a commandment, the other nine were. Christians are free from the Law, the Law is really meant for the unbeliever to drive them to the foot of the cross by knowing what sin is and that they sinners. Remember the Sabbath is Saturday and that means most Christians would have to be put to death for breaking it.
I understand but the Sabbath was never carried over as a commandment, the other nine were. Christians are free from the Law, the Law is really meant for the unbeliever to drive them to the foot of the cross by knowing what sin is and that they sinners. Remember the Sabbath is Saturday and that means most Christians would have to be put to death for breaking it.
I guess I can see "both sides." I know that I am doing right...I know it in my heart...
But it troubles me when you say the other 9 were....
I know the Sabbath was Saturday....therefore....because of this verse (The Sabbath was made for man..not man for the Sabbath)--hope I said that right...I feel I can worship on the day I choose.
I understand but the Sabbath was never carried over as a commandment, the other nine were. Christians are free from the Law, the Law is really meant for the unbeliever to drive them to the foot of the cross by knowing what sin is and that they sinners. Remember the Sabbath is Saturday and that means most Christians would have to be put to death for breaking it.
Actually, we're free from the law of sin and death. (Rm8:2)
Even the Law of Moses applies - for those who attempt to keep it.
The Ten Commandments were not part of the Law of Moses, but the Law of Moses was based on the Ten Commandments.
True, we aren't under Mosaic Law.
That is the Law which was superseded by a new covenant with better promises for those who abide by faith.
But were the Ten Commandments done away?
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
The Ten Commandments were not part of a covenant; they were commandments.
The old covenant was based on the law and so is the New.
The difference is that in the New Covenant, the Law should be in our hearts.
We should want to obey, rather than looking for loopholes as those of the Old Covenant did by keeping the letter.
Matthew 5:27,28 indicates that the Law applies not just to actions, but to motivations and purity of heart.
Thankfully, we also have grace extended to us.
Of course, today the world is in sync with Sunday, so the majority of the church will continue observing that day.
...But mostly - just for an hour.
Thank you all for your responses... I see many theological arguments both ways... there's much to ponder.
As this has digressed into debate I'll chime in:
The ten commandments are I believe just that, comandments. Not the ten suggestions, and they are quite simple... don't kill, check, dont bear false witness, check, don't covet, check, honor your folks, check, keep the sabath holy, check, no images to be made of things of heaven or holy things of earth, check. etc, etc, etc.
I think it constitutes theological gymnastics to think that just because a pope a long time ago changed the sabath from the day God Comanded, that makes it fine to disregard the day God comanded (however Christ did teach the sabath was for man, not man for the sabath... no need to lock yourself in your house for 24 hrs and not do dishes, lol) But it strikes me as a plain dichotomy that our "weekend" contains both the God comanded day, as well as a day a man changed it to... and most of us chose mans day (myself included).
As for a cross, wow, I hadn't thought about it untill recently, but that is the one immage that is not only heavenly, not only earthly, but marks the most significant moment where the two colided in history.
Christ said many will come saying "lord, lord" and he will respond "you don't even know me"... To paraprase that attitude into the cut-to-the-chase manner of speaking he had, will he return to judge the earth and say "funny, you think you know me but I cruised by your church on the sabath and it was empty, instead you worshiped the next day SUNday, (not SONday)... hey, what's that around your neck?... is that an immage commemorating the very cross my own people killed me on in their wickedness????... have you lost your minds????....
just one more take from a guy who grew up in church every sunday, and always saw a cross or 2 (regardless of denomination). Food for thought only... looks like the schollars already had at it in this thread.
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