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Hi Oakback,
Few people like to be told they are incorrect as to their beliefs. But the Bible says a wise man learns from correction. That being said allow me to say some things.
1. Salvation is offered to no one. The gospel is preached to the masses and those whom God has chosen for life in the future will believe for He specifically gives those certain individuals faith to believe.
2. Hell is not locked. It is not locked from the inside or outside. It was the keys of Hades that Christ had.
Rev 1:18 and the Living One: and I became dead, and lo! living am I for the eons of the eons. (Amen!) And I have the keys of death and of the unseen [hades]."
The unseen is just the grave or tomb where the entombed were no longer seen, hence called the "unseen" or [h]ades where the negative "a" is "no" or "not" and des is "seen".
Either they are chosen for life in the oncoming eons or they aren't. Life is not attained by merit or lack of maturity or lack of I.Q. It is only attained by God's choosing of us before the disruption. Eventually all will be saved.
Again, salvation is not gained nor lost by how good or bad we are but based upon God's choice of us before we did anything good or bad.
I really do respect your beliefs, but I just don't share your certainty.
Despite the title of this thread, June is absolutely sincere in what she is about to ask in this OP.
This forum has been engaged in an ongoing argumentative debate as regards Universalism vs. Non-Universalist beliefs for a long time now. To say that it becomes ugly at times would be a ridiculous understatement. June reads/moderates all these threads, so it's not as though she isn't familiar with what has been an ongoing debate (on a good day) and outright denominational warfare on another...
So June has a question, given something that happened this past week:
June happened to have dinner with a friend of hers this past week. He's a colleague, and a very dear friend. He also happens to be an ordained minister, but up here in Massachusetts ("Heathen Land" that it is) very few people at work are aware of that fact. June and her friend talked as we ate. (June did more crying than eating, but her friend was accepting of that.) We talked about a lot of things: Work, life, and religion.
Upon leaving the restaurant at the end of the evening, much to June's shock and dismay, her friend asked her: "Can I pray for you?" -To which June (being her adorable "Just June" self) replied that would be fine, and expressed her gratitude that her friend would ask. However, he proceeded to convey to June that he in fact was asking if he could pray for her then and there. --As in: right there, in the parking lot. Much to June's utter shock and dismay, she said "okay." --And so he did. Very moving.
Now June needs to ask, to know: Given the fact that this friend is fully aware of the fact that June is an atheist, (but none the less extended the offer he did due to his beliefs) and given the fact that June let him pray for her in that parking lot this past week, if --as a result of that-- June somehow ended up becoming a Universalist, or a Catholic, or June became a Baptist, or June became a Protestant, or June ended up becoming a Methodist, or June ended up becoming any type of a Christian, (but for the purposes of this thread, let's just say by some miracle June came to believe, and had to decide whether she was a Universalist or not) then....
WOULD IT MATTER!?
Would it matter to all of you if somehow an atheist could come to believe, and would the denomination be the most central, focused thing in your minds? Would it be better for June to remain an atheist, than to somehow miraculously come to believe, and end up a Universalist? Or end up becoming a non-Universalist? How much would that be an issue for all of you?
June sincerely, respectfully would like to know your thoughts....
Take gentle care,
"Not Converted Yet June"
Thanks June for making it clear that its time for Christians to leave this forum. .........an atheist moderator of a Christian forum......
What's next...a KKK moderator of a african\american forum
Thanks June for making it clear that its time for Christians to leave this forum. .........an atheist moderator of a Christian forum......
What's next...a KKK moderator of a african\american forum
Your powers of extraction precede you twin.spin. Your simply marvelous ability to deduce such hidden meanings behind a post are so fascinating that I could hardly stand to think how you might fare on a Rorschach Test. That was so intuitive and graceful, so insightful and deep, and yet so apologetically honest.
The analogous power of depth in which you relate mean, old June to a KKK member have become so fabulously entrenched and ingrained in my mind as a special visual imagery riding on the synaptic responses of my brain.
Oh, what creative lenses must exist in such an individual. What schooling, what training and what formal counseling must have taken course in your life to liven up those powers of extraction! Or, could it be a sign of pure genius whereas no formal training has been wrought? Oh, how we must gawk and wonder at the possibilities of genius presenting itself on our site!
I'm simply not worthy of reading such mellifluous posts!
Who else finds it ironic that relativism (the one thing most Christians I know detest) seems to be creeping into their own beliefs? How far is does "If you believe in Christ you are saved" go? In 100 years is it going to be that anyone who knows of his existence will be saved simply by acknowledging it? What are we being saved from if there is no eternal torment?
Do we get wiped out of existence instead of continuing to live?
If not being saved means being obliterated from this universe I don't see how that is any different from eternal torment to a living being. The thought of me ceasing to exist with the possibility to live forever is very tormenting.
However if ceasing to exist is the only option then I am quite content.
Who else finds it ironic that relativism (the one thing most Christians I know detest) seems to be creeping into their own beliefs? How far is does "If you believe in Christ you are saved" go? In 100 years is it going to be that anyone who knows of his existence will be saved simply by acknowledging it? What are we being saved from if there is no eternal torment?
Do we get wiped out of existence instead of continuing to live?
If not being saved means being obliterated from this universe I don't see how that is any different from eternal torment to a living being. The thought of me ceasing to exist with the possibility to live forever is very tormenting.
However if ceasing to exist is the only option then I am quite content.
You do not see how billions and billions of people being tormented eternally is different from ceasing to exist.
Think of the worst pain you have ever had and imagine that lasting forever (and ever) {as is one forever was not enough, there is another one!!} ................ that is what you think will happen to billions and billions of people that never knew about Christ, they never even heard of him and did not have a chance to believe in him.
But back to the OP - if June was converted and believed in Christ as her saviour and also came to believe in universal reconciliation baptist? catholic? JW? baptist? pentecostal? - would it make a difference to you?
You do not see how billions and billions of people being tormented eternally is different from ceasing to exist.
Think of the worst pain you have ever had and imagine that lasting forever (and ever) {as is one forever was not enough, there is another one!!} ................ that is what you think will happen to billions and billions of people that never knew about Christ, they never even heard of him and did not have a chance to believe in him.
But back to the OP - if June was converted and believed in Christ as her saviour and also came to believe in universal reconciliation baptist? catholic? JW? baptist? pentecostal? - would it make a difference to you?
You didn't answer my question. I know what "Eternal Torment" is. I grew up as a Roman Catholic. I was confirmed yada yada yada. My post was more towards what exactly replaces eternal torment in Universalism. If there is "No negative outcome".... I see no point in Jesus offering eternal life if there is no other alternative option to be given...
Your powers of extraction precede you twin.spin. Your simply marvelous ability to deduce such hidden meanings behind a post are so fascinating that I could hardly stand to think how you might fare on a Rorschach Test. That was so intuitive and graceful, so insightful and deep, and yet so apologetically honest.
The analogous power of depth in which you relate mean, old June to a KKK member have become so fabulously entrenched and ingrained in my mind as a special visual imagery riding on the synaptic responses of my brain.
Oh, what creative lenses must exist in such an individual. What schooling, what training and what formal counseling must have taken course in your life to liven up those powers of extraction! Or, could it be a sign of pure genius whereas no formal training has been wrought? Oh, how we must gawk and wonder at the possibilities of genius presenting itself on our site!
I'm simply not worthy of reading such mellifluous posts!
your a better man than me.
i would have said somthing like !%#?!^%@!
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very few people at work are aware of that fact. June and her friend talked as we ate. (June did more crying than eating, but her friend was accepting of that.) We talked about a lot of things: Work, life, and religion.
--And so he did. Very moving. 
