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Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
The debate among the religious leaders wasn't about the deity (the triune) of God being true. It was about Jesus' claims the he was part of this Godhead and that he was their God, the Jehovah.
John 8:58
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
Twin as the FULLNESS of the Godhead dwells in Christ how is it he than is part of the Godhead?
Would that not be like saying the Father, Son and Holy Spirit dwell in Jesus? Yet how can the SON dwell in Jesus as He is the SON.
Jesus always made a distiction between Himself and the Father so how is it He is the Father?
Least any say Jesus said the Father and I are one is saying He is God the Father I'll just point out that we are to be ONE with the Father and the Son also, so by that reasoning we too would be God the Father.
Do any here actually beleive they are God the Father?
Jesus always made a distiction between Himself and the Father so how is it He is the Father?
Least any say Jesus said the Father and I are one is saying He is God the Father I'll just point out that we are to be ONE with the Father and the Son also, so by that reasoning we too would be God the Father.
Do any here actually beleive they are God the Father?
Great Point pneuma, I don't disagree that these three entities are of a diety type, but they are not THE ONE diety that which the word of God speaks!!
Not to mention : Jesus clearly states that he will sit at the right hand of God when he gets to Heaven. Why not just say when I get to Heaven, I will take my seat as the throne of God!!!
GOD BLESS!!!!
ALMOST2L8
Last edited by ALMOST2L8; 08-20-2009 at 11:55 AM..
Jesus was a Jew. His twelve diciples were Jews. Paul and Barnabus were Jews. Jesus did not preach a message to "Christians" he preached it to Jews. Paul took the message to the Greeks. However, it seems impossible to truly understand Christ's teachings and original core message without understanding the mindset of its early Jewish followers who carried on after Christ. Early Christianity did not look like the version we have in modern American society. Heck, early Christianity looked very little like Roman Catholicism post 4th century.
The Trinity has always confused me. The Bible really does not make a case for it. Sure, there are verses in the Gospel of John that can be interpreted to support the Trinity. However, that is not so much the case with the other Gospels. In fact, the picture of Christ in the other three Gospels is very different from the one present in the Gospel of John. In addition the Trinitarian teaching on the Holy Spirit seems very inconsistent with what is presented in the New Testatment. Again the notion of the Holy Spirit being a seperate "person" from God is just not very well developed in the New Testament (or Old for that matter). It just seems that if the Trinity was so central to Christianity it would be more developed and clear in ALL the Gospels.
The more I study the more I am beginning to believe the early followers of Christ (including his disciples) did not see him as God incarnate, but as a human prophet and messiah with a divine purpose from God. That is very different from being seen as God himself. It seems the Jews of that time were very devout in honoring their prophets. It would make sense that Paul, Peter, and others would honor Christ very highly. So referring to him as "lord" is not a stretch. At the same time they were very careful not to equate anyone with God or call any man a God. It went against the Jewish understanding of God (not to mention it violated the first commandment).
Calling Christ the "lamb of God" is not the same as calling him God. Christ calling himself "one with the Father" is not the same as "I am God". According to the Trinity Christ is both united to the Father and God without the Father. I have yet to see this kind of thinking played out in the New Testament. Granted, I am no theologian. I have not gone to any seminary. But if you have to be a theologian to understand the basic teachings of who God is, then the teaching is flawed.
From what I have read the Trinity was more of a political compromise than divine revelation. It resulted from two (literally) warring schools of thought whose proponents were concerned with much more than divine clarity.
I am not trying to slam the doctrine or those that believe it. I was raised in the church and the basic message of Christ resonates very strongly with me. I try very hard to understand that message and live it in my interaction with all people. However, I have become completely disenchanted with what mainstream American "Christianity" has become. Those feelings of frustration have driven me to do my own research and find out the most I can about the message Christ actually preached, not the various "versions" of that message that have came down over the centuries. I hope no takes offense to this. It defintely is not my intention to offend.
Last edited by CaliDude1; 08-20-2009 at 12:30 PM..
The Trinity as a concept is very difficult to comprehend (and I am Roman Catholic).
Doctrine tells us that there are three persons in the one God.
Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Ghost.
Three persons - one God.
All separate but all indivisible.
Very very hard concept to understand and a very difficult concept to explain, in reality.
It's down to faith in the end
What is so hard about it?
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