It's impossible for us not to sin! (pray, sinned, Holy Spirit)

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by Sundance

I understand what you are saying. However, based on the words of Jesus, I disagree with you.
Sin is not just an action.

Not so Sundance...the Bible clearly distinguishes between our "sin nature" and "committing" sin!
Paul speaks of the sinful nature when he states:
"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (Romans 7:17)...and again he states:
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Galatians 5:17)
Then John tells us what "committing sin" is:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Originally Posted by Sundance

Sin originates in the heart, when we do not take our thought life captive.

...Exactly Sundance!...when we do not take our thought life captive!...when we do not take our thought life captive!...when we do not take our thought life captive!!! YOU MUST...and are ABLE to take your thought life captive by the power of the Spirit of God which is IN YOU...IF..IT IS...IN FACT...WITHIN YOU!!

Originally Posted by Sundance

The Lord said that if one is angry at his brother without cause,he is in danger of judgement.

yes...because if one harbours unforgiveness in his heart...he hasn't taken his thoughts of anger captive...he could have made a choice to not stay angry...but he chose to stay angry...and continued in unforgiveness within his heart! Why can't you see this?

Originally Posted by Sundance

He said, if one looks at another woman with lust in his heart, he has committed adultery.

yes...because if one is lusting>>(COMMITTING THE ACT!!!) already in his heart...he has not taken the initial thought captive...he is already imagining what he is doing to her in his thoughts and in his heart if he had the chance to...but he chose to continue on with the thought and turned it into the act by allowing his thought to manifest the act in his imaginings!...but he could have held the initial thought captive right where it began...and changed his thoughts!...but he didn't!...he committed the act in his thoughts!...WE HAVE CONTROL OVER OUR THOUGHTS!!!

"Blessed is the man that ENDURETH TEMPTATION: for when he is TRIED, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him..."
"...But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed..."
"...THEN WHEN LUST HATH CONCEIVED, IT BRINGETH FORTH SIN: AND SIN, WHEN IT IS FINISHED, BRINGETH FORTH DEATH!!! (James 1:12,14-15)

Originally Posted by Sundance

We are on dangerous ground when we think that it's okay to have sinful thoughts, as long as we do not act upon them.

There is a great difference between our "sin nature" as an active force in man...and "committing" sin, which is rebellion against God! The sin nature is what "urges" us to "committ" the act of sin!

Originally Posted by Sundance

Thoughts are expressed in actions.

Yes! They are absolutely! So...one's "active" response to a thought will reveal what is in the heart of the one who had the initial thought!...this is called "FRUIT!!!"...what "fruit" do we bear??????

Originally Posted by Sundance

It starts with one's thought life.

Absolutely! You'll know them by their fruit!!!!!

Originally Posted by Sundance

We must have control over our thought life, and our attitudes. An action is just the end result, the outward manifestation of what is in one's heart..................that's why the Lord said the things He did.

Sundance...you make me crazy!!! Here you are contradicting your very own argument...and agreeing with what I am so desperately trying to say to you all!!!!

Originally Posted by Sundance

If folks think it's okay to have evil, jealous, vengeful thoughts without acting on them, you are sadly mistaken. What you think is what you will do.

WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG!!!! EVERYONE has the thoughts...this is not the sin!!! Jesus was tempted in His thoughts just as we are..."He was tempted in all things as man are tempted..." YET!!! Jesus was without sin!!...WHY was He without sin?...Yet He was tempted?...Yet He was without sin?...BUT!!!..He was tempted!!!..Yet He was WITHOUT SIN!!!....BECAUSE He didn't ACT UPON THE SIN IN HIS THOUGHTS...HE TOOK CAPTIVE HIS THOUGHTS!!!!!!!!!

Why can't you all see this?!!? Have your eyes been blinded to the truth? It is so clear......!!!!!!!

[pcamps]

When Jesus said you have commited adultery in your heart if you look at a woman lustfully . He was exposing the condition of the heart of man.
He knows we can give it a good shot at being righteous , look at the rich young ruler , but we still fall short of His standard because to be righteous under the law we would have to never break it , so Jesus was revealing to man where his failure comes from (the heart), to deny you are not righteous of your ownself would mean you are self righteous ,(I this I that).
I believe all believers are a work in progress , we are not changing ourselves , it's God changing us(our new self which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him) into His likeness.
I would not dare put on my lips i can live a sinless life , the moment i did i know i would fall flat on my face.To say or believe otherwise you are bringing yourself under the law and bringing judgement on yourself.

[pneuma]

Verna have not read all your posts in this thread, but I do agree with you that we can walk in the spirit and not fulfill the lust of our flesh.

Many seem to still beleive that we can disobey His commandments and not die, just as the serpent said in the garden.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by pcamps

When Jesus said you have commited adultery in your heart if you look at a woman lustfully . He was exposing the condition of the heart of man.
He knows we can give it a good shot at being righteous , look at the rich young ruler , but we still fall short of His standard because to be righteous under the law we would have to never break it , so Jesus was revealing to man where his failure comes from (the heart), to deny you are not righteous of your ownself would mean you are self righteous ,(I this I that).
I believe all believers are a work in progress , we are not changing ourselves , it's God changing us into His likeness.
I would not dare put on my lips i can live a sinless life , the moment i did i know i would fall flat on my face.To say or believe otherwise you are bringing yourself under the law and bringing judgement on yourself.

Camps I don't think that is what Verna is saying, she is only saying if we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh and to walk in the spirit we must obey God. But as I have not read all of what Verna said I could be wrong in what she is trying to convey.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Camps I don't think that is what Verna is saying, she is only saying if we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh and to walk in the spirit we must obey God. But as I have not read all of what Verna said I could be wrong in what she is trying to convey.

Lusts of the flesh? You don't even believe Jesus had lusts of the flesh. We are supposed to follow Jesus, if Jesus didn't have to overcome the flesh then why would we? He said to follow Him. He is our example.

Paul

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Camps I don't think that is what Verna is saying, she is only saying if we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh and to walk in the spirit we must obey God. But as I have not read all of what Verna said I could be wrong in what she is trying to convey.

Pneuma i am not 100% sure either , but i believe fully if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh , but none of us are there yet , none of us have arrived at that yet, the moment we think we have we will end up flat on our faces.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by pcamps

Pneuma i am not 100% sure either , but i believe fully if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh , but none of us are there yet , none of us have arrived at that yet, the moment we think we have we will end up flat on our faces.

I agree

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

Paul speaks of the sinful nature when he states:
"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (Romans 7:17)...and again he states:
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Galatians 5:17)
Then John tells us what "committing sin" is:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

I think several of us are seeing things we agree on, and I'm one...but if you consider Paul's answer to the scripture you've posted, it's this:

I die daily.

It's not our life that is righteous, but His. We have to die to the flesh to be free. End of sentence.

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by little elmer

All of your scripture is pre-Cross. When sacrifice wasn't enough to cleanse us, there came a New and Living way - the blood of Jesus. Few of us have strived unto blood against sin, but the communion with Him (not the observance, but the real deal) makes His path to the cross real in us.

I think we agree, though we're looking at the same thing from two different angles. The struggle against sin is actually doing a deep work of grace in us, which leads to more of His life...
...which does not sin...

Yes little elmer, we do agree on this.

Originally Posted by little elmer

Our goal is to be one with Him, as He is one with the Father. We have to lose our carnal nature, or else this is all done in the flesh.

Amen.

Post Cross Scripture: (Please...everyone read this...please...)

James 1:1-27 "A Letter About How To Live"
1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greetings.
2) Mt brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3) Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5) If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6) But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7) For let not that man think he shalkl receive any thing of the Lord.
8) A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
9) Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10) But the rich, in that he is made low; because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
11) For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but ut withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashionof it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
12) Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lusts, and enticed.
15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16) Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17) Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variables, neith shadow of turning.
18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19) Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
29) For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21) Wherefore lay apart all filthhiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22) But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23) For as many be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24) For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgeteth what manner of man he was.
25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26) If any man amoung you seen to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27) Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

In the love of Christ for you all...
Verna.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by trettep

Lusts of the flesh? You don't even believe Jesus had lusts of the flesh. We are supposed to follow Jesus, if Jesus didn't have to overcome the flesh then why would we? He said to follow Him. He is our example.

Paul

You have no idea what you are talking of anything I have said (where is the thumbs down when you need it)