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Old 10-24-2009, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
Reputation: 15

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[quote=Shawn71;10615830]

'If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto Me'

What is this saying to you?
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
BTW I never stated that I believe in the place of eternal torture called hell!!!


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
Would you agree that the kingdom of heaven is not the eternal resting place?
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I'll do one to give you an example.

Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Why does this have to mean that there are some who will never enter the kingdom, ever?

It doesn't, it means that the kingdom will not have unrighteous people in it. You need all the words The key word "except" is saying that no one unrighteous gets in. It is a statement of assurance.

And it aligns perfectly with 1 timothy 2:4 anytime someone is saved and brought to the knowledge of truth they meet the clause "Except"

Simple.

Nothing contextualized to twist, no words changed in either scripture when I described what I believe.
************************************************** *******
Are you saying Jesus died to save us from our sin if we become righteous, if we live right, commit no more sin, adhere to......... THIS CAN GO ON AND ON. Again, 10,000 stipulations to eternal life. I thought there was only one way to have eternal life. That was through what Jesus did. He died for ALL SIN.
Now to be born again for salvation in this life (kingdom of heaven).
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:
I am not directing these questions only towards you. I like the fact that you're thinking for yourself and not what people feed you. However, I would ask this question to anyone that says you would have to do something or accept Jesus in order to be saved for eternal life. Does accepting Jesus for what He's done validate what He did?
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
Thank you phazel, for your explanation. But it still doesnt explain why Jesus would proclaim that some will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
Didn't Jesus die for ALL SIN or just for the one that believes He did?
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I think people are kidding themselves if they believe they are not under the Wrath of God. We are no longer under the Wrath of God once we have been given His Spirit. At that point we may not have to endure the wrath to come. But anyone that dies is under WRATH of God. Remember God's WRATH is GOOD - God cannot work EVIL toward ANYONE. That means God only works GOOD towards all of us.
please explain further.
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 6,442,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn71 View Post

'If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto Me'

What is this saying to you?


It is saying quite clearly without the interpretation of ANY man what it is intended to mean: ALL MEN ARE DRAWN.......

DRAWN where? To HIM...........WAIT!! Stop for a minute!! Shhhhhh..shh...Do you hear that constant knocking? Do you feel that constant tugging? Shhhh..shh...that pulling, can you feel it?

Well that's the D-R-A-W-I-N-G!!YES, Of ALL MEN!! ALL ARE DRAWN. Wait another minute, please, before you go.....You have to do something! ("I have to do something? Isn't that works"?) No, it's sooooo easy, all you have to do is: ANSWER TO THAT KNOCK! TO THAT PULL! GIVE IN TO THAT TUG!!

You call that works?Really? No, people, the real, WORK has already been done on the cross, for you, for me. This is a GIFT of which you either choose to accept, or, you choose to refuse.............yes, you can choose to refuse the GIFT. Make a choice, what are you waiting on? Perhaps today?
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
It is saying quite clearly without the interpretation of ANY man what it is intended to mean: ALL MEN ARE DRAWN.......

DRAWN where? To HIM...........WAIT!! Stop for a minute!! Shhhhhh..shh...Do you hear that constant knocking? Do you feel that constant tugging? Shhhh..shh...that pulling, can you feel it?

Well that's the D-R-A-W-I-N-G!!YES, Of ALL MEN!! ALL ARE DRAWN. Wait another minute, please, before you go.....You have to do something! ("I have to do something? Isn't that works"?) No, it's sooooo easy, all you have to do is: ANSWER TO THAT KNOCK! TO THAT PULL! GIVE IN TO THAT TUG!!

You call that works?Really? No, people, the real, WORK has already been

done on the cross, for you, for me. This is a GIFT of which you either choose to accept, or, you choose to refuse.............yes, you can choose to refuse the GIFT. Make a choice, what are you waiting on? Perhaps today?
[SIZE=3]Question: Do we have to accept a gift in order for the "gift" to be considered a “gift” from which it was intended to be? For instance and a fact, Jesus did give a gift which was and is us having redemption to God. He died and was buried and rose again on the third day for us to all equally have the same gift. He (metaphorically speaking) went out, purchased the perfect gift for you and I and laid it at our feet and your saying we have to pick it up in order for it to become a “gift”. The gift was already bought. Based on what you’re saying, He's going to have to either return the gift where He bought it or go back to the cross and take back the words “it is finished” and say “It will be finished for all those that believe in me” and continue suffering on the cross. No.... He's not going to undo what he already done. He's not going to go back to the cross and suffer more waiting and hoping we accept a gift that He gave with His whole heart. He gave it with no conditions or expectations. Isn’t that what we do when we buy gifts for those we love or should I say what we should do? Even if we were to give a gift to someone and they chose not to open or use the gift it wouldn’t change the meaning of the word GIFT? After all, a gift is a gift no matter if the person receives it or not. Our intension is to buy a gift and give it as a gift. We can refuse a gift yes. However, by doing so we won't get a chance to enjoy the fruit of the gift (fruit of the gift is not referring to eternal life in heaven I am referring to the Good News-Gospel). Imagine a tree being the gift of redemption and the fruit of the tree being salvation born again. Now lets say what really happened. Jesus died for all sin past, present and future on the cross and said it is finished. This means it will not change what Jesus did, that Jesus will not take anything back, and it’s not up for discussion etc…. Then, He went back to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to earth. Consider the gift a package deal from one man to ALL men. ALL INCLUSIVE. Next, come the Apostles doing as what Jesus said to Peter. Tend My lambs, tend My sheep, and feed My sheep. “MY” he was claiming us before we received His gift. By the way, the knocking is the Holy Spirit and He comes to till our ground and help make our ground fertile. So when the sower comes to sow the word it will be on fertile ground and will bear fruit. After all, who will know what they feel or who Jesus is if a preacher did not preach the word? Or for that matter, if the ground were not fertile (made by the Holy Spirit) then no seed would live. 1John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born again, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. This is where we should be now onto the born again part. People have been teaching that being born again happens when Jesus died on the cross and that’s not true. After the sower sows the word on fertile ground the fruit believes and receives Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior this is the born again part. This is where the kingdom of God and so forth takes place. Be Blessed[/SIZE]
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
Reputation: 15
The "Gift" is the sacrifice that Jesus gave to God. God accepted the "gift" which is receiving us into Him. We (mankind being saved and redeemed back to God) are the fruit to the gift. It wasn't our gift to accept it was Gods and He accepted the gift for us. It is finished...Now, lets start talking about the Gospel since the Good News has been done.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,248 posts, read 1,258,158 times
Reputation: 125
I believe what needs to be looked at is this:
The first Adam's design and the second Adam's design.

The first Adam was for the creation of the individual entity,(that being...you) who you are, your character, your personality, all that is you in the flesh.

Anybody born in the flesh is a son/daughter of Adam, or in other words, "son of man." and not a "son of God".

To be "a son of God" one needs the second Adam design, which is, to be born again, this time "Of God"; as in Jesus.

Now, the question really is, to whom was this second design meant to be for?

Well, very simple; for the son of man, which I already pointed out is "all" of us born in the flesh.

All flesh is born of flesh as was the first Adam, but not all flesh is born of God until He that was born of the flesh (Second Adam..Jesus as son of man) was also born of God as the Son of God at the same time.

The designed second Adam, already born of God was/is the "first born" of God and all humanity in the flesh.

All Humanity is then the second born after Jesus, because Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the flesh by overcoming the flesh for all humanity.

God, in my view is a merciful God who is by some viewed as a mean God because He is described in the Old Testament bible as being a wrathful God, but in reality, death of any human is nothing to the life He gives.

Meaning, if God gives life, (in the flesh) it is just as simple as Him taking life back (in the flesh) for all intents and purposes, as a privilege forfeited, or because God has a better plan.

God is not, in my understanding going to loose any soul, regardless of how sinful the soul may have been, but, He does have the option of cutting one's life off without that life being lost to eternity.

I'm not sure whether you all are following my thoughts on this as I have explained it because, there has to be some maturity gained: via life, study of the word and God's spiritual help.

The second Adam design was to save the first. (The first shall be last and the last shall be first)

Now, the good news is the second Adam's design,(shall be first) and that is that by the second Adam (shall be last), life is now granted to the first as a free gift.

The problem really is now, is in communicating that fact so that others may see it to.

If, others can see it to, then their lives will be changed while in the flesh, but if not, then death will be their changing point.

What all does that mean......is life then not that important that death is also a means to salvation?

Life is very important because you were given life to experience as an individual in the midst of a hellish environment where your life's character is tested.

God has also given us the ability to enact self governing laws, that may require us to take life, as in capital punishment,( not endangering the eternal aspect of that individual's status) in order to maintain justice in a world designed to do the opposite.

An immoral world is our responsibility to correct and maintain at the cost even of our lives.

A convicted killer who has taken a life/lives, forfeits his or hers life, and the law is just in taking it.

Let me sum it all up: Life is a privilege given, yet not to be consumed by it, as in the lusts of the flesh.

But rather, to use it to live just, guided by (if allowed) the conscience (Gods Spirit)spirit which lies dormant in ever individual, that needs to be fed in order to grow strong.

All, are not saved, but all will be saved, either now while alive in the flesh, or at death when we bow at the feet of Jesus.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

There you have it, the second Adams design was to predestinate "all" among the brethren (fellow sons of Adam....first born) to the second Adam (second born as in second Adam) thus, the salvation of all.

Hope this helps?

Blessings, AJ
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Texas
31 posts, read 40,201 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 View Post
I believe what needs to be looked at is this:
The first Adam's design and the second Adam's design.

There you have it, the second Adams design was to predestinate "all" among the brethren (fellow sons of Adam....first born) to the second Adam (second born as in second Adam) thus, the salvation of all.

Hope this helps?

Blessings, AJ
[SIZE=3]I believe I got it. Your saying the sacrifice that Jesus gave God was for us to be redeemed to God since we were born in the likeness of a fallen man (Adam) and not into the likeness of God. You’re saying through believing and receiving Jesus in this life we shall be born again and adopted into the family of God being called son of God. However, for the ones that have not received Christ in this life will not be born again nor are saved for eternal life in this life and will be born again and claimed as a son of God when they bow down and call Jesus Lord.[/SIZE] EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED IN THE END BUT ARE NOT SAVED YET. Right?
Maybe we're thinking the same but yet different...
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