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Legoman asked, I see no such scripture where isn't everywhere. I gave a verse. what does time had to with it?
It's all related, what Jesus felt has no relationship to the absence of God.
We have all been unbelievers or even in unbelief of a particular issue, none of that means God was not there, only that we did not perceive him. But if he was absent, then we wouldn't have come to believe in any capacity.
If God was actually absent from Jesus, then Jesus crucifixion would just been another day and another dead body to dispose of.
It's all related, what Jesus felt has no relationship to the absence of God.
We have all been unbelievers or even in unbelief of a particular issue, none of that means God was not there, only that we did not perceive him. But if he was absent, then we wouldn't have come to believe in any capacity.
If God was actually absent from Jesus, then Jesus crucifixion would just been another day and another dead body to dispose of.
We believe God was there but at some time God couldn't look at Jesus anymore and in a sense "turned His back" to Him rresulting in Jesus to cry out, that God is too pure to look upon evil. Therefore, it is possible that when Jesus bore our sins in His body on the cross that the Father, spiritually, turned away.
We believe God was there but at some time God couldn't look at Jesus anymore and in a sense "turned His back" to Him rresulting in Jesus to cry out, that God is too pure to look upon evil. Therefore, it is possible that when Jesus bore our sins in His body on the cross that the Father, spiritually, turned away.
God was there, The above is the depiction of a man, who is limited. God is entirely unaffected by evil, so it's not a matter of seeing this as a man with eyes, it is seeing it as a spirit completely void of any effect of evil, but God created us all, so as evil as any one can become, there is still what God created there.
Hb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
DING!! DING!! DING!! You hit the nail on the perverbial head. That is hell. We will have bodies in hell with the same wants and needs but no grace of God. Your hungry? too bad God's grace isn't there to provide the food, You thirsty? too bad God's grace isn't there to provide water....can't even get stable footing because God isn't there to provide a stable ground.
Do you realize that you have just described non-existence? Nothing can exist without God, don't you agree? If it could, then God didn't create the whole universe, only the good part. Then where did the bad part come from? If it created itself the God is not the single creator of the universe.
You understand that you cannot exist in the presence of God, and still have sin. You also understand that Godliness cannot inhabit hell. In a perfectly divided world there is only good and bad, black and white. What you fail to see is this: If a man is to be reconciled ETERNALLY to a Godless environment, then he, too, must be void of all righteousness, Godliness, etc. And if a man is completely void of God, then he must be at harmony with his surroundings. In essence, hell would be his heaven. If a man is purely wicked and exists in a wicked environment, he would enjoy that environment, would he not?
But we know that no one likes hell! Why not? If there is tension in hell, it can only come from opposing forces. The same way that God hates sin, beings that belong to hell must hate what is good and righteous, but if we are in hell and have needs pertaining to righteousness, we are not so void of goodness, or God, as you assert. Any part of a man that does not enjoy hell must pertain to goodness, and therefore God. And what does the Bible tell us over and over using images, metaphors, parables? In the end, God, goodness, love, and righteousness will triumph.
..And something else: Look back to the creation of the first Man. What was it that made Adam a living soul? Was it not the breath of God? Therefore how is anything LIVING (needing water, food, shelter etc) in the complete absence of this element?
Last edited by Truthseeker777; 09-28-2009 at 01:17 PM..
Do you realize that you have just described non-existence? Nothing can exist without God, don't you agree? If it could, then God didn't create the whole universe, only the good part. Then where did the bad part come from? If it created itself the God is not the single creator of the universe.
You understand that you cannot exist in the presence of God, and still have sin. You also understand that Godliness cannot inhabit hell. In a perfectly divided world there is only good and bad, black and white. What you fail to see is this: If a man is to be reconciled ETERNALLY to a Godless environment, then he, too, must be void of all righteousness, Godliness, etc. And if a man is completely void of God, then he must be at harmony with his surroundings. In essence, hell would be his heaven. If a man is purely wicked and exists in a wicked environment, he would enjoy that environment, would he not?
But we know that no one likes hell! Why not? If there is tension in hell, it can only come from opposing forces. The same way that God hates sin, beings that belong to hell must hate what is good and righteous, but if we are in hell and have needs pertaining to righteousness, we are not so void of goodness, or God, as you assert. Any part of a man that does not enjoy hell must pertain to goodness, and therefore God. And what does the Bible tell us over and over using images, metaphors, parables? In the end, God, goodness, love, and righteousness will triumph.
..And something else: Look back to the creation of the first Man. What was it that mad Adam a living soul? Was it not the breath of God? Therefore how is anything LIVING (needing water, food, shelter etc) in the complete absence of this element?
Being hungry is non existence??????????????? Bad things or evil is the absense of God.
Exactly. Then if you are completely void of God, you have no desire, no HUNGER for him or his grace. And if you are completely void of God, you cannot still have the breath of God, which is the definition of life according to scripture. So yes. If you are completely void of God then you do not exist. According to your logic, God is the only thing that exists.- therefore everything in his absence must be non-existent.
Last edited by Truthseeker777; 09-28-2009 at 01:35 PM..
Does anyone here actually think torture is a good thing?
And of course the followup question:
Is eternal torture a good thing?
One mans torture is another man's justice.
EXAMPLE:
They sent a guy to jail here in my town for murder.
The guy will spend the rest of his life in jail.
Is this a good thing?
From his point of view, I bet it's clearly not a good thing.
From his point of view I would say that he thinks it's an evil torture.
However there is a strong case to be made that sending him away to jail forever is a form of justice for his crime.
I will not shed a tear when they drag him away to jail for the rest of his life.
People that rape and kill a little girl should get what they deserve.
no tears here for him,....
AND no problem here with the sentence he received, even if some bleeding hearts call such a sentence "torture"
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