The Five Cycles of National Discipline

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by eyewrist

Nothing has changed from then to now the same rules applies and God's same reaction to sin applies...If you repent and turn from your wicked ways, I will forgive you and heal your land, which IMO means your body, your family, your needs (not necessarily your wants) but if you do not, your sin will not go unpunished. God disciplines like you would discipline your child but God is much more patient then we are, he can tolerate disobedience for years even decades but he says that's enough; then that enough!

Nothing can change . . . what was . . . was and what is . . . is. But what CAN change is we can apply a more knowledgeable understanding than the original primitives were capable of . . . especially with the unambiguous and clear example of the TRUE NATURE of God we have in Jesus.

[eyewrist]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Nothing can change . . . what was . . . was and what is . . . is. But what CAN change is we can apply a more knowledgeable understanding than the original primitives were capable of . . . especially with the unambiguous and clear example of the TRUE NATURE of God we have in Jesus.

Why do you assume these people were so primitive? They were what God create in that time and space just as we are in this present age. We will also be looked upon as primitives in the next 30 to 40 years by the next generation but does that make it true? God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; he never changes; His rules applies throughout the generations; let's thank him for that because we can trust him for that fact!

Boy, I feel like the only child willing to defend my Daddy for the decision he made because he is concern for my will being while the rest of the children don't want no part of his rules and regulations in HIS household. Sounds familiar huh parents?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by eyewrist

Why do you assume these people were so primitive? They were what God create in that time and space just as we are in this present age. We will also be looked upon as primitives in the next 30 to 40 years by the next generation but does that make it true?God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; he never changes; His rules applies throughout the generations; let's thank him for that because we can trust him for that fact!

30 to 40 years??? you are aware that the scriptures predate Christ's appearance on the earth by thousands of years and that it has been 2000+ years since those "generations" . . . right. They were PRIMITIVE SAVAGES many of whom sacrificed their own babies to Baal or Moloch and burned them. Their minds were not remotely like ours. Their culture was not remotely like ours. Their "rules" for behavior were barbarous compared to modern civility. Their intellectual concepts were base and undeveloped. Their self-control over their drives was minimal if at all . . . and almost always required some external restraint or threat to invoke it. God may be the same . . . but humans have not been and are not. To grasp the full impact of this, it is necessary for you to try to visualize the true consciousness of Man-the-animal at the time of Christ. This can be very difficult for most civilized twentieth century human beings. Attitudinally they were significantly more barbarous consciousnesses. They cannot be considered even remotely comparable to human beings today.

The majority of human beings today cannot possibly understand the consciousness of man-the-animal. We are not equipped to relate to someone who:

1.) would go out of his way to inflict pain and injury on a crippled or deformed fellow being without any awareness that there was anything wrong with such behavior;

2.) would believe that cripples should be treated badly because one should not be kinder than the God who made them crippled;

3.) would not feel remorse at having been utterly ruthless to helpless and defenseless victims and would actually admire any individuals who are like them;

4.) would not have the ability to sympathize with another human being; and

5.) would not feel shock or horror at the wholesale slaughter of babies.

Just to state a few of the attitudes.

Man-the-animal, possessor of the consciousness I just described, was the dominant breed of human being at the time of Jesus Christ. The descriptive record is replete with examples.

Boy, I feel like the only child willing to defend my Daddy for the decision he made because he is concern for my will being while the rest of the children don't want no part of his rules and regulations in HIS household. Sounds familiar huh parents?

Defending the descriptions of your Daddy produced by those barbarous consciousnesses is to blaspheme our Father's loving nature as revealed to us by Jesus, period.

[eyewrist]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

30 to 40 years??? you are aware that the scriptures predate Christ's appearance on the earth by thousands of years and that it has been 2000+ years since those "generations" . . . right. They were PRIMITIVE SAVAGES many of whom sacrificed their own babies to Baal or Moloch and burned them. Their minds were not remotely like ours. Their culture was not remotely like ours. Their "rules" for behavior were barbarous compared to modern civility. Their intellectual concepts were base and undeveloped. Their self-control over their drives was minimal if at all . . . and almost always required some external restraint or threat to invoke it. God may be the same . . . but humans have not been and are not. To grasp the full impact of this, it is necessary for you to try to visualize the true consciousness of Man-the-animal at the time of Christ. This can be very difficult for most civilized twentieth century human beings. Attitudinally they were significantly more barbarous consciousnesses. They cannot be considered even remotely comparable to human beings today.

The majority of human beings today cannot possibly understand the consciousness of man-the-animal. We are not equipped to relate to someone who:

1.) would go out of his way to inflict pain and injury on a crippled or deformed fellow being without any awareness that there was anything wrong with such behavior;

2.) would believe that cripples should be treated badly because one should not be kinder than the God who made them crippled;

3.) would not feel remorse at having been utterly ruthless to helpless and defenseless victims and would actually admire any individuals who are like them;

4.) would not have the ability to sympathize with another human being; and

5.) would not feel shock or horror at the wholesale slaughter of babies.

Just to state a few of the attitudes.

Man-the-animal, possessor of the consciousness I just described, was the dominant breed of human being at the time of Jesus Christ. The descriptive record is replete with examples.Defending the descriptions of your Daddy produced by those barbarous consciousnesses is to blaspheme our Father's loving nature as revealed to us by Jesus, period.

Yes, with technological and medical advances, we will look primitive to the next generation from their point of view. And if those in the OT were so primitive then how did Adam (Gen 2:19) name all the animals, Tubal Cain ( Genesis 4:22) knows how to use bronze and iron, how did Noah (Gen 6:14) know how to build an ark and Babel (gen 11:3) build a city? Doesn't sound primitive to me.

What I do see is your denial that God has love for his people and will discipline when necessary. This conversation has nothing to do with God and his right to do as he pleases since all of us and everything in this world is his creation. So you are saying you never disciplined your child (if you don't have one; a pet then)? But I say to you, the moment you said "NO" or "Do not..." you gave discipline.

And your points 1 through 5 are not from God but SIN; God is pure and perfect and Sin is not acceptable in His chosen people or should I say those that chose him because he will not make anyone do anything they do not want to do. God will purge sin from his people more so than those who have not but BOTH are brought under discipline or consequences respectively.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by eyewrist

What I do see is your denial that God has love for his people and will discipline when necessary.

::sigh:: I profess the TRUE LOVE of God and His TRUE NATURE (not the human weakness version of primitive minds). God wants us to "do right" because we LOVE and WANT to do right . . . NOT because we are obedient "pets" fearing punishment or seeking reward. We are His chiildren . . . NOT His "pets" or slaves.

This conversation has nothing to do with God and his right to do as he pleases since all of us and everything in this world is his creation. So you are saying you never disciplined your child (if you don't have one; a pet then)? But I say to you, the moment you said "NO" or "Do not..." you gave discipline.

This has everything to do with God and the distinction between what primitive minds are capable of understanding and what we are capable of understanding about Him. Comparing "saying No" to ordering the raping, murder and killing of babies . . . or eternal torment and punishment for whatever is done in a "non-eternal" life of less than 100+ years is unacceptable to me. I cannot love such a God . . . apparently you can and accept that He can do whatever He wants no matter how evil and you will accept it as the acts of God. Not me.

And your points 1 through 5 are not from God but SIN;

That is only a sample of the kind of MIND that was describing God and His motives........ . . . the ones you believe and accept without question.

God is pure and perfect and Sin is not acceptable in His chosen people or should I say those that chose him because he will not make anyone do anything they do not want to do. God will purge sin from his people more so than those who have not but BOTH are brought under discipline or consequences respectively.

We agree that God is perfect . . . which Is why I cannot accept that He acts as we humans do with all our imperfections and weakensses. I KNOW the source of our actions and motives. God does NOT have those weaknesses . . . yet you accept those descriptions of His motives as part of His perfection. I cannot.

[effie g-tad]

Originally Posted by Mike555

When I mentioned the five cycles of discipline in the thread pertaining to homosexuality, I was asked to start a thread concerning those five cycles.

God judges nations for their apostasy. He holds nations that are client nations to God--that is, nations that have been given the responsibility of disseminating the Gospel through missionary activity through out the world--to higher standards, and disciplines and judges those nations more severely when they fail to fulfull their responsibility then He judges other nations.

In the age of Israel, the nation Israel was charged with that responsibility. It was God's intention that Israel be the custodian of His word and to evangelize the Gentile nations. Israel consistantly failed to live up to that responsibility and found itself under varying degrees of divine discipline and judgment. Today, the Jews still remain under the fifth cycle of discipline as they remain dispersed through out the world. The fact that some Jews are back in the land at the moment is not the regathering of Israel that God has promised them, and which will occur at the second advent of Christ.

Leviticus 26:14-39 details the five cycles of national discipline as they applied to Israel. They also apply to any nation that disobeys God.


Verses 14-19 start off with the first cycle of discipline in which there's a loss of inner peace, fear and paranoia among the people, there are business and agricultural failures, defeat in war, poverty and sickness.


Verses 18-20 describe the second cycle in which as a result of rejecting God, the nation begins to accelerate its rate of decline, and loses its honor and prestige.


The third cycle of discipline is given in verses 21 and 22, and concerns punishment through plagues,the death of children, the destruction of wealth (cattle--cattle were considered wealth in ancient Israel).

Verses 23-26 details the fourth cycle with its increasing intensity of these judgments, including invasions by foreign powers, and extreme economic adversity, and famine. Plagues and disease increase.

Verses 27-39 details the fifth cycle of discipline which involves the complete loss of personal and national sovereignty, the destruction of the family and the nation. The land is made desolate and conditions can be so bad that people resort to cannibalism.

In our present dispensation, only Gentile nations can be client nations to God, and currently the United States holds that responsibility. As this country continues its mad dash away from God and the national apostasy increases, such as it's embracing of homosexuality, and its turning away from Biblical principles concerning individual freedom, marriage, family, and nationalism; and as the perverting of Christianity continues to increase, then this nation will continue to come under more and more severe judgment from God. We are currently pretty far along on the scale.

Here's a link concerning the cycles of discipline:

Chastisement (Divine Discipline)

Google: the five cycles of discipline for others.

fwiw: i cannot help but tying in the 2009 peace nobel price with all that archaic stuff.