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Old 10-21-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
In post 10 you stated: "The canon of scripture has been closed."

I'm still interested in knowing what valid scriptural references you have to support your belief. Or is that just one of those scholarly opinion pieces that a lot of people blindly accept because their paid pastors and leaders say they should?

Please quote from the Bible, that's one of the books I study and accept as canonical, thanks.

I started the discussion with the mormon elder I referred to previously by saying:
"Look, you believe some guy found some gold tablets in New York, and with some magic glasses, claimed to discover revelation from God. And I believe some guy trudged up a mountain somewhere in the middle east and then walked down the hill with some tablets, and also claimed to have some revelation from God. So we each have an element of faith"

So I'm saying to you, on faith I take my scripture to be the inspired word of God. And that many good and wise men who proceeded me, also believe it.

If your asking me if it is possible for another prophet to appear? I believe it is. But I don't believe the fundamental doctrine will change.

Until I recieve direct revelation from God proving otherwise, I choose to believe that the canon of scripture I use is sufficient.

It has served me well.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,954,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
....So I'm saying to you, on faith I take my scripture to be the inspired word of God. And that many good and wise men who proceeded me, also believe it. If your asking me if it is possible for another prophet to appear? I believe it is. But I don't believe the fundamental doctrine will change. Until I recieve direct revelation from God proving otherwise, I choose to believe that the canon of scripture I use is sufficient. It has served me well.
You continue to ignore my question entirely, I'm asking you to support with quotes from the Bible your statement in post #10:

"The canon of scripture has been closed."

If you can't do that then just say so, I'm not trying to involve you in a discussion about what book/s you accept as canonical.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
You continue to ignore my question entirely, I'm asking you to support with quotes from the Bible your statement in post #10:

"The canon of scripture has been closed."

If you can't do that then just say so, I'm not trying to involve you in a discussion about what book/s you accept as canonical.
The word canon is not found in scripture. But I believe the scripture I have, paticularly the 27 books of the New Testament that have been accepted since the 4th century, are sufficient for my salvation.

I believe that canon with which I speak is closed.

I suspect you know enough about the developement of the canon, so I'll leave that one alone.

Obviously for you, the canon I speak of is, not closed.

Do you believe that someone can add new revelation to the LDS scripture you use?
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:55 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Much as I love and study the Holy Bible, what if the Bible isn't all we're ever going to get from God? What if God really is unchanging? What if He continues to speak to His children on earth as he did anciently? Is it possible that there could be living prophets of God on the earth today as there were anciently? What if there are other records written by other Hebrew prophets who were just as qualified as those who wrote the few books from among many that learned men put into today's Bible?

As I browse the threads in this Christianity sub-forum and see the vast variety of beliefs written about here, I am amazed at how the following two verses of scripture seem so applicable to our time:


"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it." Amos 8: 11-12

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/amos/8/11-12#11


"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.... Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3: 1,7

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_tim/3/1,7#1



It is human nature to do our best to cram things into neat little boxes with contents that are so familiar to us that we never hesitate to jump right back in when the boxes of others open nearby and unfamiliar things come crawling out. We stick a label on our own particular box of beliefs, then sometimes smugly throw the label around and defend it militantly as if it was our own personal identity!

Could it be learned men, scholars, organized religion, church leaders, paid professional pastors and priests, bias, prejudice, ignorance, bigotry, closed minds that is keeping us from participating fully in these the exciting Fulness of Times; keeping us perhaps from having a satisfying personal relationship with GOD and Jesus Christ; keeping us from knowing where we came from, why we're here, and where we're going when our turn on earth is over?

For those bold independent souls who are unafraid to step back for a while from the boxes and labels, the "isms" and "ists", allow me to tell you about just one other book of scripture, the record of Joseph, written by prophets who migrated from Jerusalem to the Americas about 600 B.C., the ones the Lord spoke of as his "other sheep" whom he had promised to visit after his resurrection. That book alone could provide for you a massively larger context within which to better understand the words written in the Holy Bible, the record of Judah. And you don't need to join yet another organized religious denomination to learn from that book; maybe your unique calling and mission in life is to stay with the denomination you are now a member of, and to quietly help lift other members to even higher heights of understanding God and the universe around us...


"Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand." Ezekiel 37: 16,19

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ezek/37/16,19#16



"For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." Isaiah 29: 10-14


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/29/10-14#10



If you can suspend for a while your fear of the unfamiliar and step away from the boxes and isms that contain and limit you, you can anonymously read that book online:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents


Or request a free copy (choose from 108 languages) at:

http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/free-media/free-media?src=tv



For those who are not so bold, independent, and open-minded, tell us why in your opinion sincere truth seekers should be too afraid to read that other testament of Jesus Christ, the record of Joseph...
Forgive me for saying this, as i respect your right to believe as you will ...

But Joseph smith was a convicted-con artist, before he supposedly discovered the book of Mormon ...

Why on earth would someone want to believe in a book that he(Joseph Smith) supposedly found inscribed on a gold tablet that he said he later destroyed after he copied it onto paper ...


I never understood that ...
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,954,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Forgive me for saying this, as i respect your right to believe as you will ...

But Joseph smith was a convicted-con artist, before he supposedly discovered the book of Mormon ...

Why on earth would someone want to believe in a book that he(Joseph Smith) supposedly found inscribed on a gold tablet that he said he later destroyed agter he copied it onto paper ...

I never understood that ...
Don't believe everything you read on anti-Mormon sites.

Joseph Smith was falsely charged and incarcerated a lot of times. The early Saints were severely persecuted, driven from state to state, murdered, plundered, the women raped. The governor of Missouri even issued an executive order to "exterminate" the Mormons. Joseph Smith was murdered by a mob at age 39 while falsely imprisoned and under the 'protection' of the state of Illinois.

There was no "gold tablet" and Joseph never said he destroyed it.

I know "The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ" to be true because I have read it many times, asked God if it is true, and have been told by the Holy Spirit many times that it is the word of God, the record of Joseph, comparable to the Bible which is the record of Judah.


You can learn some truth about Joseph Smith at the following website:

http://www.josephsmith.net
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,954,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
The word canon is not found in scripture. But I believe the scripture I have, paticularly the 27 books of the New Testament that have been accepted since the 4th century, are sufficient for my salvation.

I believe that canon with which I speak is closed.

I suspect you know enough about the developement of the canon, so I'll leave that one alone.

Obviously for you, the canon I speak of is, not closed.

Do you believe that someone can add new revelation to the LDS scripture you use?
Ok, thanks for explaining. As I understand it then you personally accept the books placed in the bible by scholars in the 4th century as everything you need to be saved and you have closed your mind to the possibility of God providing any other scripture or revelation for His children on earth in our time. (Correct me if I misunderstood you.)

Yes, there is a procedure in the LDS Church for additional revelations to be added to our canon, but it is seldom applied.

Here is a link to the books in our canon, including the King James version of the Bible:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,962,258 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Ok, thanks for explaining. As I understand it then you personally accept the books placed in the bible by scholars in the 4th century as everything you need to be saved and you have closed your mind to the possibility of God providing any other scripture or revelation for His children on earth in our time. (Correct me if I misunderstood you.)

Yes, there is a procedure in the LDS Church for additional revelations to be added to our canon, but it is seldom applied.

Here is a link to the books in our canon, including the King James version of the Bible:

http://scriptures.lds.org/

Yes you essentially have it correct. Except for closed mind part.
Anything is possible.

I'm curious when or if the latest revelation occurred, and what it was.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
I'm curious when or if the latest revelation occurred, and what it was.
There was an official "Declaration" made in September, 1978:


To Whom It May Concern:

On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

President Kimball has asked that I now read this letter:

June 8, 1978 (click the link to read the letter)


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/od/2




And an official "Proclamation" issued in September, 1995:


The Family: A Proclamation to the World

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God's eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. "Children are an heritage of the Lord" (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html

Last edited by justamere10; 10-21-2009 at 09:56 PM..
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:38 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Don't believe everything you read on anti-Mormon sites.

Joseph Smith was falsely charged and incarcerated a lot of times. The early Saints were severely persecuted, driven from state to state, murdered, plundered, the women raped. The governor of Missouri even issued an executive order to "exterminate" the Mormons. Joseph Smith was murdered by a mob at age 39 while falsely imprisoned and under the 'protection' of the state of Illinois.

There was no "gold tablet" and Joseph never said he destroyed it.

I know "The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ" to be true because I have read it many times, asked God if it is true, and have been told by the Holy Spirit many times that it is the word of God, the record of Joseph, comparable to the Bible which is the record of Judah.


You can learn some truth about Joseph Smith at the following website:

http://www.josephsmith.net
I saw it on the history channel ...
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,954,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I saw it on the history channel ...
Another anti-Mormon site! (Just kidding .)

They got it wrong, though ancient plates made of gold and bound together like pages in a book were involved. Joseph Smith returned them to the angel who showed him where they were.

It's quite a fascinating story actually. For those who believe in the Bible the appearance of angels should not be difficult to accept...

Read all about it:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1
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