Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If that is the truth then back it up.. sola scriptura!
But of course there is no passage that states that a belief in Christ as God is needed for salvation....
We have already done this in more ways than one. You have already lost the battle kat.......but because you believe the above, it is because the Holy Spirit is not helping you at all, and this is in direct result in your disbelief that Christ is God. Bon à rien to you as well. Get on your knees and ask Jesus.....to come into your heart and your eyes will be opened as Saul's did, and then you will see. Just give it a try....with all your heart...what are you afraid of?
Last edited by sciotamicks; 11-18-2009 at 11:23 PM..
Reason: spelling again :(
I forget . . . you are of the literalist school where the actual meaning or intent is less important than the specific literal words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
In other words, you never considered Jesus saying He is not the disciple's God when He said to them:
"I am ascending to your God" (John 20:17).
Their God was not Jesus. Their God was Jesus' God.
If Jesus was their God why did He not say so here?
Yikes.. it says Jesus' God was the same as their God.. what a perfect opportunity for Jesus to say he was their God but he does not because he is not.
Why are you, Miss Shawn, stating that Jesus' God is not their God? Why even argue about it since it is plain in that passage that Jesus has the same God that they have and that God is not Jesus?
Yikes.. it says Jesus' God was the same as their God.. what a perfect opportunity for Jesus to say he was their God but he does not because he is not.
Why are you, Miss Shawn, stating that Jesus' God is not their God? Why even argue about it since it is plain in that passage that Jesus has the same God that they have and that God is not Jesus?
No it doesn't say Jesus God. Jesus is God.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. So, we see that the only person creating the heavens and the earth is God. In the Tanakh Elohim created.
Elohim is unigue to the Hebraic language and only occurs in the Hebrew language. The masculine plural does not mean gods, when referring the The One True God, since the name is use in singular verbs. How ever considering the Hashalush Hakadosh the form allows for the plurality.
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Now we see that all things were made, and nothing was made without Him.
col 1:16-17
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Now we see again by Him all things were created in heaven and on earth. But as you see God created the heaven and the earth. So, if God created in the beginning in Genesis, and now we see Jeus created the heaven and the earth, then He was there before anything was created. Now the scripture says that Elohim created, and Jesus created. Jesus is God.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness. God was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit within Himself. The us can't be referring to angels because we are not in their image.
In the OT there are accounts of people see God face to face, but then you see scripture saying that God the Father was never seen, even Jesus said that we have never seen the Father's form.
So, if no one has never seen the Father, who was Jacob wrestling with, who did Moses, well they were seeing Jesus, because noone has seen the Father.
Why are you, Miss Shawn, stating that Jesus' God is not their God? Why even argue about it since it is plain in that passage that Jesus has the same God that they have and that God is not Jesus?
You people miss it completely don't you?.....Christ died....God came in the flesh and died for all of us yes, but for Israel especially, so that they...the covenant people...could re-marry Him and lose the baggage of being a harlot. To be made new.......to be made white...the bride.
This is theology 101...but you all miss it...why?
Because you believe Christ was just a man. The same mistake the Jewish Polity made.....Saul saw the truth...and he was very well versed in the Law...chosen Jew...to help Christ consummate the everlasting covenant...to the Gentiles.
It seems you do not understand the term and it meaning.
Jesus is the exact representation of God because he is God and has always existed. Therefore "firstborn" doesn't mean Jesus was created, but is a way of referring to his pre-eminent position (which would be readily understood in a culture where firstborn children had greater privileges). Similarly, while Colossians 1:15 refers to Jesus as "the firstborn over all creation.
If Jesus created all things and is before all things, obviously he was not created himself.
Like I said before Jesus was always there. Jesus is the only begotten of His kind. He was placed in a womb by the Holy Spirit, not created.
Do, you believe that Jesus was before anyone, or that Jesus was in the OT?
Dear God! How can anyone not understand english that professes to know greek?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I already gave the definition of begotten.. which has the synonym of CREATED and is in the greek: yaladh; "to bear," "bring forth," "beget"
Beget: Noah Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language1. (v. t.) To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; to produce; as, poverty can beget crime.
2. (v. t.) To get (with child.)
3. (v. t.) To produce as an effect; to cause to exist.
So what is it you do not understand.. is God ever referred to as begotten?
Jesus was begotten.. that cannot be argued.. so how is it that you change the meaning of begotten.. clearly it means to create, produce, to cause to exist.
Dear God! How can anyone not understand english that professes to know greek?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I already gave the definition of begotten.. which has the synonym of CREATED and is in the greek: yaladh; "to bear," "bring forth," "beget"
Beget: Noah Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language1. (v. t.) To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; to produce; as, poverty can beget crime.
2. (v. t.) To get (with child.)
3. (v. t.) To produce as an effect; to cause to exist.
So what is it you do not understand.. is God ever referred to as begotten?
Jesus was begotten.. that cannot be argued.. so how is it that you change the meaning of begotten.. clearly it means to create, produce, to cause to exist.
It is so sad, I have asked you do you not know that Jesus was in the OT. If that is the case, He can't be created, for He created all things. You are the one struggling to understand.
I am not argueing that Jesus is begotten because He is. Jesus is the only Begotten of His kind, God in flesh. If you would take the time to read and understand the scripture, it says that Mary was found with Child of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was the one that placed Jesus in the womb of Mary, not created placed.
she is right....the first thing you that steers you down the wrong path.... אלהים is plural as plural can get. The trinity was professed in the very beginning. Deal with it sister!
It is so sad, I have asked you do you not know that Jesus was in the OT. If that is the case, He can't be created, for He created all things. You are the one struggling to understand.
If she would just get on her knees and beg Jesus to come into her heart...because it's breaking mine...she is so smart, but that won't get her anywhere in the end.
We have already done this in more ways than one. You have already lost the battle kat.......but because you believe the above, it is because the Holy Spirit is not helping you at all, and this is in direct result in your disbelief that Christ is God. Bon à rien to you as well. Get on your knees and ask Jesus.....to come into your heart and your eyes will be opened as Saul's did, and then you will see. Just give it a try....with all your heart...what are you afraid of?
First, how do you propose to know my spiritual state? Is that for you to know? You assume that I have not called on God when there is no way for you to discern this and so it is simply a judgment. I believe this judgment comes from your own insecurity and really has little to do with me.
Second, I asked you for a scripture or scriptures that say that in order to be saved, one must believe that Jesus is God. This you have not proven (nor have you sufficiently proven that Jesus is God IMO) and you never will because there is no instance in the entire bible where it is said that one must believe that Jesus is God..
Lay the matter to rest and show that one must believe that Jesus is God in order to be saved! It should be such a simple thing.. For if you believe it to be in the scripture, surely you can show it to me.
You answered it yourself.....a few more steps...and you are there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
