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Yes it does mean fear as it is normally thought about . . . not some rationalization to excuse the existence of a monster God. The ET'ers definitely believe in such a heinous God that should be feared because of all the things attributed to Him in the OT and the apostasy of hell and eternal damnation.
The OT is merely important to validate the existence, mission and importance of Jesus. Jesus came to FULFILL the prophesis in the OT and remove the veil of ignorance about God that exists from reading those savage descriptions of the nature of God. The OT was necessary to establish the expectation of Jesus and predict the way His life and death would occur and the impact He would have for millennia. Jesus fulfilled all the expectations of His day and for every day since for 2000+ years. That is what fulfilling the OT means and that is what validates Christianity.
The veil of ignorance that blinded our ancestors to God's TRUE NATURE from the misinterpretations of the OT was lifted by Jesus and His example and teaching. The OT has no further role in understanding the NATURE of God . . . only righteousness and providing hope . . . Jesus is the TRUE NATURE of God . . . not the heinous misunderstandings of the OT. The prophesies being fulfilled for 2000+ years despite the errors in the OT are sufficient validation.
Satan's strategy is to pervert the truth of God's Word..."...the father of lies.." Jesus said: "he was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar, and the father of lies" (John 8:44).
Just as Jesus manifests truth...speaks truth...and is the full embodiment of truth, Satan manifests deception...speaks lies...half-truths...and is the full embodiment of ALL THAT IS FALSE.
His objectives have ALWAYS been to hinder man from knowing the truth. As the "god of this world," he has the ability to blind the minds of unbelievers from receiving the truth...he tempts and lures them to sin and the deceitfulness of sin hinders them from seeing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
...BUT!!!...
...the MAJOR weapon Satan uses to defeat Christians is PERVERTING THE TRUTH!...it doesn't outwardly appear evil...he disguises evil to appear good...to disguise error to appear as truth...to disguise the unrighteous to appear as righteous!
The major weapon Satan uses to deceive Christians is THE WORD OF GOD...the very weapon God has given us to defeat Satan, he turns right around and uses it against us...this I have learned....among other things....on this forum.
Back to 2 Corinthians 3:14...But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail UNTAKEN away, in the reading of the old testament: which vail is done away IN CHRIST...
...means...
[But their minds were blinded. So blinded that they cannot see to this day that it has been set aside by the new covenant, and that its types, figures and shadows find their fulfillment IN CHRIST. The same vail REMAINETH ON THEIR UNDERSTANDING UNREMOVED...SO AS NOT TO ADMIT A LITTLE GLIMMERING LIGHT - THE VAIL IS NOT ON THE FACE OF MOSES OR OF HIS WRITINGS, BUT ON THE READING OF THEM, AND ON THE HEART OF THEM THAT DO NOT BELIEVE. WHICH IS TAKEN AWAY IN CHRIST - THAT IS, FROM THE HEART OF THEM THAT TRULY BELIEVE ON HIM!]
Wesley.
v. 16. Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
[Or, when any particular person is converted to God, then the veil of ignorance is taken away; the blindness of the mind, and the hardness of the heart, are cured. 2. The condition of those who enjoy and believe the gospel is much more happy. For, (1.) They have liberty: Where the Spirit of the Lord is, and where he worketh, as he does under the gospel-dispensation, there is liberty (v. 17), freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law, and from the servitude of corruption; liberty of access to God, and freedom of speech in prayer.The heart is set at liberty, and enlarged, to run the ways of God's commandments. ]
Matthew Henry.
..."...a heinous God...' "...The veil of ignorance that blinded our ancestors to God's TRUE NATURE from the misinterpretations of the OT was lifted by Jesus and His example and teaching..."......says Mystic.
...heinous...? NOT MY GOD!
...ignorance...?...misinterpretations...?...NOT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT...NOR THE AUTHORS OF IT!
Moderator cut: a direct attack on the poster you quoted and others here
Last edited by Verna Perry; 11-16-2009 at 04:01 PM..
Okay, kids lets stop with the name calling by use of the bible..We are only 5 posts in this subject so in order to keep this thread open and intelligent debate you will have to keep your tempers and sarcasms down.
Okay, kids lets stop with the name calling by use of the bible..We are only 5 posts in this subject so in order to keep this thread open and intelligent debate you will have to keep your tempers and sarcasms down.
Satan's strategy is to pervert the truth of God's Word..."...the father of lies.." Jesus said: "he was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar, and the father of lies" (John 8:44).
Just as Jesus manifests truth...speaks truth...and is the full embodiment of truth, Satan manifests deception...speaks lies...half-truths...and is the full embodiment of ALL THAT IS FALSE.
His objectives have ALWAYS been to hinder man from knowing the truth. As the "god of this world," he has the ability to blind the minds of unbelievers from receiving the truth...he tempts and lures them to sin and the deceitfulness of sin hinders them from seeing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
My dear Verna . . . It is the Gospel of Jesus (NOT Jehovah) . . . that saves. Jesus has no resemblance to the Jehovah described in the OT . . . which is more likely to be satanic deception. Either there are two very different Gods or the there is only one unambiguous one proven by example and teaching love for us all . . . even unto scourging and death. Your concern that somehow evil will go "unpunished" . . . or people will feel free to be as awful as we humans are capable of being . . . is clouding your perceptions. Besides . . . none of that fear stuff scares any of those who would most need to be scared by it.
But . . . not to worry, Verna . . . there will be consequences. It is the interpretation of the consequences as punishment from a wrathful God that is bogus. They are consequences of spiritual FAILURE because of the way the universe is designed and intended to be.Violations of ANY of God's laws always have consequences. Like violating the law of gravity. NONE of them are punishments. We are supposed to be loving creations . . . if we are not we fail and there are consequences. The horrid punishing wrathful jealous, angry, genocidal, rape and pillage ordering God of the OT never DID exist. Savage minds were unable to conceive of His real nature, period.
You can believe that I am doing the twisting, Verna . . . but it is those who have been making excuses for the heinous God described in the OT who have been twisting Jesus's message of love and forgiveness. Keeping the fear motive is almost satanic in its effectiveness at countering Jesus's love.
Quote:
2 Corinthians 3:14...But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail UNTAKEN away, in the reading of the old testament: which
vail is done away IN CHRIST...
means
[But their minds were blinded. So blinded that they cannot see to this day that it has been set aside by the new covenant, and that its types, figures and shadows find their fulfillment IN CHRIST. The same vail REMAINETH ON THEIR UNDERSTANDING UNREMOVED...SO AS NOT TO ADMIT A LITTLE GLIMMERING LIGHT - THE VAIL IS NOT ON THE FACE OF MOSES OR OF HIS WRITINGS, BUT ON THE READING OF THEM, AND ON THE HEART OF THEM THAT DO NOT BELIEVE. WHICH IS TAKEN AWAY IN CHRIST - THAT IS, FROM THE HEART OF THEM THAT TRULY BELIEVE ON HIM!]
Wesley.
v. 16. Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
[Or, when any particular person is converted to God, then the veil of ignorance is taken away; the blindness of the mind, and the hardness of the heart, are cured. 2. The condition of those who enjoy and believe the gospel is much more happy. For, (1.) They have liberty: Where the Spirit of the Lord is, and where he worketh, as he does under the gospel-dispensation, there is liberty (v. 17), freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law, and from the servitude of corruption; liberty of access to God, and freedom of speech in prayer.The heart is set at liberty, and enlarged, to run the ways of God's commandments. ]
Matthew Henry.
These say the same thing I have said, Verna . . . read through the mind and heart of Jesus to see the true God.
Quote:
..."...a heinous God...' "...The veil of ignorance that blinded our ancestors to God's TRUE NATURE from the misinterpretations of the OT was lifted by Jesus and His example and teaching..."......says Mystic.
...heinous...? NOT MY GOD!
The DESCRIPTIONS of God are heinous and they are WRONG, Verna . . of course God is not heinous . . . Jesus revealed that unambiguously by not smiting anyone.
Quote:
...ignorance...?...misinterpretations...?...NOT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT...NOR THE AUTHORS OF IT!
Yes in the OT and in the authors of it. They used primitive concepts of God and primitive interpretations of events attributed to God and they were written by ignorant savages centuries BEFORE Christ . . . and THAT was 2000+ years ago. God's inspiration only placed the spiritual truth within them . . . the interpretation and communication of that truth was corrupted by ignorance. What did you think the "veil" was that caused the reading of the OT to produce such misunderstanding?
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Sure..You can all come out and play fair and nice
