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Apparently Mike is affiliated with a tiny independent church (probably just a few years old) led apparently by a charismatic preacher who teaches the things that Mike loudly proclaims all over this board as written in stone truths and condemns to hell anyone who fails to believe the same. Then he arrogantly hurls the word "cult" at the 13,500,000 member worldwide Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that was organized about 180 years ago and now is the fourth largest Christian denomination in the USA!
Here are a few thoughts about Mike's accusation:
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The LDS Church is not a cult.
The 13,500,000 member worldwide Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a cult. But some anti-Mormon websites and discussion board writers continue to smear the Saints with that label, using it in a frightening context.
The primary definition of the word cult in most dictionaries is "a system of religious worship." Certainly, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches a system of religious worship, even the worship of our Father in Heaven and his Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ. However, when most people use the term cult, they are referring to a group that promotes unhealthy, harmful practices to either its members or society in general.
For most people, when the world cult is used, scary images of mass suicides, human sacrifice, and the occult spring to mind. This, of course, is the intent of the critics who attempt to associate the LDS Church with this negative term.
The LDS Church is not a cult and there is absolutely nothing unhealthy or harmful associated with either the beliefs or practices of the Church. We teach what we believe to be the true gospel of Jesus Christ which allows people to achieve happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come.
For a discussion of why members from competing denominations use such dishonest, mean-spirited scare tactics, see Why does Mormonism arouse such animosity among so many?"
You have done an admiral job of sharing your faith. I for one am grateful to consider you and my other LDS friends as brothers and sisters in Christ.
It would be interesting to have Church field trips, where each was able to visit the other without fear or condemnation. I believe yours is open to all.
You have done an admiral job of sharing your faith. I for one am grateful to consider you and my other LDS friends as brothers and sisters in Christ.
It would be interesting to have Church field trips, where each was able to visit the other without fear or condemnation. I believe yours is open to all.
Fear is the love killer.
godspeed brother/or sister?
freedom
I appreciate your kind words freedom.
Even though most Christians affiliate with one particular denomination at a time, we'll all meet our death and judgment on our own and most who are sincere and faithful are working out their own individual salvation with fear and trembling, each of us in our own way according to our beliefs, understandings, and spiritual experiences. The most important thing about being a Christian as I see it is to have faith in Jesus Christ, to keep God's commandments, and to live the loving caring way he taught we should live.
We can do all of those things regardless of the religious denomination we affiliate and are content with. It is my belief that most of us who are faithful will eventually be judged and assigned to a mansion within a kingdom of glory, a "heaven" the lowest of which is incomparably glorious and beautiful compared to this temporary world of trial and testing.
In my own particular beliefs there are ordinances such as baptism that are prerequisites for entrance into the highest of the three heavens. But God is fair to all, such ordinances can be received after death by someone else standing in as proxy in holy temples of the Lord. God loves us all equally, I am convinced of that.
I'm perfectly content to be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a "Mormon") it has worked for me for more than forty years. But it may not be for everyone. I think we are all called if we will listen to work in places where our own unique talents and skills can be of most value in helping God's children live righteously enough to survive the tribulations and fire associated with the Second Coming, and eventually to return to live forever with our Heavenly Parent.
Yes, although there are certain standards of keeping the commandments that must be met to serve in LDS temples, our local meetinghouses and Sunday worship services are open to all and all are invited and welcome.
Here's a place to find the nearest LDS meetinghouse to you, and the time Sunday services start:
In my own particular beliefs there are ordinances such as baptism that are prerequisites for entrance into the highest of the three heavens. But God is fair to all, such ordinances can be received after death by someone else standing in as proxy in holy temples of the Lord. God loves us all equally, I am convinced of that.
Where do you get proxy baptism from? Or shall I start this issue on another thread?
But the op has apparently abandoned this thread and since you've already asked:
The early saints considered baptism to be such an essential earthly ordinance that they baptized their deceased loved ones by proxy, assured that God would accept such proxy ordinances as if they had been done first hand. The procedure of course does not involve exhuming corpses, just the faithful saints standing in the place of the deceased person and being baptised for him/her.
"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" 1 Corinthians 15: 29
Latter-day Saints believe that the apostolic sealing power, the power to bind in heaven what is bound on earth, has been restored. We believe that we have been commissioned to perform in holy temples essential earthly ordinances of salvation such as baptism, by proxy for those who did not have the opportunity to receive such ordinances during their lifetime.
We believe that God is loving, righteous, and just, that His Plan of Salvation for His children would not condemn anyone to an eternity in a lesser place simply because they never heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its ordinances, as is the case with most people who have lived on this earth.
Thus, in our temples, faithful Saints perform baptisms with a living person standing in for a deceased person. In our belief, those deceased persons in the spirit world will then be taught the Gospel and will freely choose for themselves whether to accept or reject it. If they choose to reject, the proxy baptism is invalid and of no worth. If they accept, they are able to progress.
Persons who receive proxy ordinances in LDS Temples are not added to the membership roles of the Church. The Saints just make sure that the earthly ordinance of baptism has been taken care of for those who weren't baptized on earth.
We believe that God is loving, righteous, and just, that His Plan of Salvation for His children would not condemn anyone to an eternity in a lesser place simply because they never heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its ordinances, as is the case with most people who have lived on this earth.
Thus, in our temples, faithful Saints perform baptisms with a living person standing in for a deceased person. In our belief, those deceased persons in the spirit world will then be taught the Gospel and will freely choose for themselves whether to accept or reject it. If they choose to reject, the proxy baptism is invalid and of no worth. If they accept, they are able to progress.
Persons who receive proxy ordinances in LDS Temples are not added to the membership roles of the Church. The Saints just make sure that the earthly ordinance of baptism has been taken care of for those who weren't baptized on earth.
OH - so it's a misunderstanding of what baptism is about, AND a misunderstanding that once a person departs the earth, judgment occurs.
Heb. 9:27 - And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
Regarding baptism - the baptism that is necessary for salvation is without water. It is all about being identified with and joined to the Father, Son, and Spirit though faith. So 1 Cor. 15 in context is saying that if Christ died and was not raised, why be joined to Him? What's the point of that? You would also be dead with Him.
Regarding baptism - the baptism that is necessary for salvation is without water. It is all about being identified with and joined to the Father, Son, and Spirit though faith. So 1 Cor. 15 in context is saying that if Christ died and was not raised, why be joined to Him? What's the point of that? You would also be dead with Him.
You are correct.
Matt 3:1 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire
I was baptized by FIRE - the sealing of the Holy Spirit on my heart and soul
OH - so it's a misunderstanding of what baptism is about, AND a misunderstanding that once a person departs the earth, judgment occurs.
Heb. 9:27 - And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
Regarding baptism - the baptism that is necessary for salvation is without water. It is all about being identified with and joined to the Father, Son, and Spirit though faith. So 1 Cor. 15 in context is saying that if Christ died and was not raised, why be joined to Him? What's the point of that? You would also be dead with Him.
I'm not sure that I understand you completely, but here's a try at a response.
It is my belief that after death our spirits are not taken to heaven or hell but go to a temporary world of spirits where they await their resurrection. That spirit world is divided into two places, one part called "Paradise" the other called "Spirit Prison". At death we are partially judged and assigned to one or the other place in the world of spirits according to how well we kept or ignored/broke God's commandments during our lifetime. A full judgment will take place prior to resurrection.
I wonder why John the Baptist was baptizing in Aenon?
"And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized." John 3: 23
There is of course another "baptism", the latter being a function of the Melchizedek Priesthood (which the apostles held but John didn't), a baptism of "fire" for the reception of the Holy Ghost.
But I don't think I've ever before heard of someone thinking that John the Baptist and others did not baptize with water...
The Bible tells us that we have all sinned, and are therefore separated from God (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23).
We are all born sinners. Not one of us is "correct in every detail" as Jesus was. He was born in human form but without sin. Jesus neither committed or performed sin. Jesus was PERFECT-COMPLETE.
Jesus came to earth and died in our place. Jesus' death was an infinite payment for our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Jesus paid the price so that we would not have to.
Jesus' resurrection from the dead proved that His death was sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins.
That is why Jesus is the one and only Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).
True Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Accepting Jesus as your personal Savior means placing your own personal faith and trust in Him. The only way to be saved is to personally accept Jesus as your Savior, trusting His death as the payment for your sins, and His resurrection as your guarantee of eternal life (John 3:16).
No one is saved by the faith of others.
No one is forgiven by doing or performing good deeds.
It is only trusting in Christ that can save you from sin.
Jesus says, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die" (John 11:25-26).
As a born-again child of God, that is to say one that has accepted the LORD Jesus Christ as their savior, there is a standard for of conduct, both in private and in public. "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31).
We live to glorify God and even though there are times when we can and do fail, God has made provision for us to be in fellowship with Him.
If we believe with all our hearts, minds, thoughts and actions and really really try not to sin but to try to conduct ourselves as Jesus did (IMPOSSIBLE-but we can avoid a lot of the temptation/sin with the freewill we have) then we will not lose our salvation.
But if we willfully commit sin continuously without spiritually heartfelt remorse-no lessons learned- no trying to conduct ourselves in a better manner and try to avoid the actions of sin, then I feel that you lose your salvation and that you are not saved.
If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" after all.
I'm not sure that I understand you completely, but here's a try at a response.
It is my belief that after death our spirits are not taken to heaven or hell but go to a temporary world of spirits where they await their resurrection. That spirit world is divided into two places, one part called "Paradise" the other called "Spirit Prison". At death we are partially judged and assigned to one or the other place in the world of spirits according to how well we kept or ignored/broke God's commandments during our lifetime. A full judgment will take place prior to resurrection.
- - Before Christ died, I believe this was the case. After Christ died, those who identified w/ Him rose form the dead.
Matt. 27:50-53 - And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
- - So now, those who are His go to be with Him after life on earth.
2 Cor. 5:8 - we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
- - Those who are not His will remain in the holding area until the White Throne judgment.
Rev. 20:13-14 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
I wonder why John the Baptist was baptizing in Aenon?
John's ministry was winding down (John 3:30) because Christ had arrived. John's original purpose for baptism is here.
John 1:31-33 - "I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water." John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, `He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
So God's purpose for JTB's baptism ministry was to make known the Christ. Once that was done, JTB's ministry decreased, and he was eventually beheaded in prison (Matt. 14).
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
There is of course another "baptism", the latter being a function of the Melchizedek Priesthood (which the apostles held but John didn't), a baptism of "fire" for the reception of the Holy Ghost.
Baptism of fire is something all believers will go through - it's the judgment seat of Christ, where our works will be tested (1 Cor. 3, 2 Cor. 5:10).
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
But I don't think I've ever before heard of someone thinking that John the Baptist and others did not baptize with water...
...and you still haven't with regards to JTB. Jesus never performed the water baptism.
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