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If that is wrong, where can I get the correct information?
Never mind, I found it. I forgot I had this.
The universalists do not believe in eternal punishment. Universalists teach that all will eventually be saved through the atonement of Jesus. Therefore, when the Bible speaks of eternal punishment and hell fire, etc., the universalist interprets it to mean an inner sorrow due to loss of reward and/or they maintain that the word "eternal" does not mean "without end."
In Greek, the word "eternal" is the word "aionion." This word occurs in two places in
Matt. 25:46: And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
The exact same word "aionion" is used to describe the duration of punishment as well as of the life of the righteous - those who are saved. The same word describes both conditions. If it means one thing in the first part of this sentence, then it means the same thing in the second part since they are both in the same context and both are describing time-duration of the states of the unsaved and the saved. If the punishment is eternal, then so is the life. Likewise, if, as the universalist says, the punishment is not eternal, then neither is the life. You can't pick and choose
how the word is applied in this verse to suit your own theology. But the universalists do just that. They are want to have Jesus say that eternal life is forever but eternal punishment is not -- even though Jesus used the same word, in the same breath, to describe them both. It just doesn't fit.
From:
CARM – Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
Christian Apologetics Notebook
Volumes 1 - 5
Page 592
His preconceived notion is that aionios describes a specific duration either
a) infinite duration
b) finite duration
This notion is refuted by scripture which applies aionios to both everlasting and non-everlasting nouns.
Quote:
The same word describes both conditions. If it means one thing in the first part of this sentence, then it means the same thing in the second part since they are both in the same context and both are describing time-duration of the states of the unsaved and the saved. If the punishment is eternal, then so is the life. Likewise, if, as the universalist says, the punishment is not eternal, then neither is the life. You can't pick and choose
Could you please explain how the word is used differently in the same verse?
Could you please explain how the word is used differently in the same verse?
I don't believe it is used differently in the same verse. I don't belieive it is describing the duration of either life or punishment. One group of people (faithful followers of Christ) will live and reign with Christ in the ages to come (called aionion life) and judge the world. The other group is judged and bears shame during those ages (aionion contempt).
Could you please explain how the word is used differently in the same verse?
Jorgy,
Whn we get to Revelation we see that the 1st resurrection is at the start of the 1000 years and the resurrection of the dead is at the end of the thousand years so the durations are not the same.
Those in the 1st resurrection are not hurt of the second death.
Also see 1 Cor 15 when it describes what resurrection is ----
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
He isn't getting argumentative but frustrated because just like Jesus...legalism is annoying. Personally I believe that this argument is really ridiculous. For those people who come here to check out what Christianity is all about this is a sad display of a Christian testimony and witness.
We shouldn't be fighting over keeping or losing Salvation but we should be using our time better. Helping the poor, visiting the sick and those in prison. Don't we have anything better to do than fight about the security of Salvation?. We wouldn't have to worry about it if we were truly walking in the Spirit...Right?? Lets focus on obedience and walking the way we are supposed to walk starting with Love for our fellow Brothers and Sisters. Shame on you guys....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn
You obviously aren't listening to anything I've said. I take it if you state something, and someone doesn't agree with YOUR interpretation of it, and debate you, they then must be ignorant and argumentative.
Therefore you're right. There is no reason to go further with our discussion, or me commenting to anything else you stated above, no matter how incorrect you are.
I will, however, always state what I believe the word of God to say, whether or not Mike believes it.
I don't believe it is used differently in the same verse. I don't belieive it is describing the duration of either life or punishment. One group of people (faithful followers of Christ) will live and reign with Christ in the ages to come (called aionion life) and judge the world. The other group is judged and bears shame during those ages (aionion contempt).
So do you think the word is being used the same way back in chapter 19?
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
There is no security in what God does, but there is a lot of security in “who he is”
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
This i can agree with.
The thing is Jorgy we actually are what we think we are and do what we think we are . As a man thinks in his heart so is He .
How can one have a lot of security in who God is.....and then say in the beginning of the very same sentence that there is no security in what God does?
That makes absolutely no sense at all! Because if one knows who God is..... they are definitely secure and trust in what He does.....
How can one have a lot of security in who God is.....and then say in the beginning of the very same sentence that there is no security in what God does?
That makes absolutely no sense at all! Because if one knows who God is..... they are definitely secure and trust in what He does.....
Latte When we discover who God really is , then you will understand what He as done.
When you know He is God by nature and character then you understand what He as done .
He is the Savior of ALL and He proved that to the world by what He has done.
He is the way the Truth and the Life , He is the Good Shepherd , He is the Bread of Life , He is the Lamb of God , He is Lord , He is the Bright Morning Star.
Hope this helps
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