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And last but not least #4 The Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture:
Before we start remember this one thing:
God, in His infinite wisdom, has placed in His Word a type or shadow of everything that is coming upon the earth. But we find no type or shadow in the Old Testament of a rapture.
Instead, we find a type of being protected through the judgment. One example is Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego who walked through the fire. Another example is Noah. Noah was not taken off the earth. He was protected through the wrath. Noah stepped off the ark on a renewed earth.
Let's begin with 1 Thess. 4.
As you read these passages ask yourself these questions:
1.)"Do these speak of a pre, mid or post tribulation?
2.) Do they indicate any time frame at all?"
3.) If you were not exposed to the rapture teaching, would you have gotten that understanding from these Scriptures?
As we examine these passages we will see it doesn't speak of an 'escape plan,' at all, but is Paul's assurance as to where certain groups of people are and how they fit into God's plan for His saints. We will also see there is no time frame mentioned (pre, mid, post) and no mention is made of the tribulation.
1 Thess. 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
One very important rule to apply when reading a section of Scripture such as the above is always find the subject and the object.
Subject in vv. 13,14,15: "them which are asleep" and "them also which sleep in Jesus" and "them which are asleep."
Subject in v. 16: "the dead in Christ."
Subject in v. 17 "them in the clouds."
Object of all verses : "that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no *hope."
What did Paul mean by, "no hope?"
Let's see just what our 'hope' is. (For the sake of space I will only post 3 passages):
Ac 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the *hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
Ac 24:15 And have *hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have *hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
So we see that Paul is not saying the 'rapture' is our hope, but it's the resurrection from the dead.
Now back to vv. 16,17:
16 For the Lord himself shall *descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be *caught up together with them in the clouds, to *meet the Lord in the *air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Several points here.
1.) descend means to step down, or fall down. Nothing in the meaning about stopping mid-way.
2.)caught up (See Matthew 24: 31 and Mr. 13:27)
3.) meet has the meaning of a deligation sent out to meet and return back with
4.) air, means the atmosphere we breath
V. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with *these words.
*What words? The words from vs. 13-17 telling where are dead loved ones are and what will happen to them at Christ's return.
Clouds are a fascinating study subject - in the spiritual [type/shadow] sense. I don't have my study notes at hand, or even a bible, so I'm "winging it" on an ageing memory and speak loosely (be warned literalists!) However, if I remember rightly, most times the word "cloud" is used in the OT it is closely related with God Himself. He either led His people in the form of a cloud or He moved IN the cloud. You'd be amazed at the number of associations there are. In Genesis He even placed His bow in the cloud as a visible covenant He would not visit the earth with another devastating flood (but of course, He has many other options.) When Jesus returns, we are told the sign of the Son of Man will be publicly seen in the clouds and we will be with Him forever, in the air. However, at that moment there could well be totally sunny, cloudless skies in half the world. Of course, this is conjecture, we don't KNOW that, but the likelihood is most real. So, if this is true then how can the whole world see Him in the clouds? What about North Africa? Is He appearing only to the northern climes and the Amazon (most likely cloudy areas) or is He appearing to the whole world? It's an interesting question and forces us to think outside the seminarian boxes (traditions of men) that so often limit the full gospel and true doctrine of God - which in turn stunts our own growth in Him. It's when you begin to analyze what exactly a cloud is and the potential for this word to be used as a type and shadow of something completely different, that it gets exciting. A cloud begins on earth as water-logged earth, trees, rocks, etc. (Spirit-filled believer?), becomes vaporized through heat and wind (daily death, the cross, fiery trials, Spirit?) rises from the earth (resurrection?) into the heavenlies (caught up to God and His throne?) where it manifests itself in a completely different form (new creature?) Being completely detached from the influence of the earth, it is directed by one thing alone - the wind (Spirit?) - and drops down the dew (from your bellies shall flow rivers of living water?) upon the parched earth (Adam/fleshly dust?) below. I use question marks since no one has a 100% handle on God's truth, least of all I, but I delight always in getting the wheels of my mind turning when faced with God's mysteries in scripture and the similarities between the parallel examples above cannot be lightly ignored. And I believe that's what God wants us to do, PRAYERFULLY question Him and use the inquisitiveness He has given us to investigate, turn over stones, check, recheck and He will give us the truth (answers) we seek - as opposed to sitting and listening to what Pastor Joe has to say from the pulpit on Sunday (no offence to Pastor Joe, of course.) Through faithful brethren over the centuries, we now have His holy, life-changing word in our own language, wonderful tools like concordances, dictionaries to help us better define words written in ancient languages, thesauruses, free bible study software, etc. (although I'd recommend staying away from commentaries - always better to get comments from the Holy Spirit.) Crudens, the man who began the concordance work that Strong eventually finished, went crazy doing what he did. He sacrificed his sanity in obedience to God and for the brethren. What I'm saying here is God has provided us with the tools we need to feed ourselves (and maybe others) so we may grow into mature believers with understanding, having the mind of God and able and trustworthy to follow His Spirit and exercise His exousia/dunamis power to further the kingdom of God on earth. So, we are always absolutely without excuse to ever claim ignorance. I use the word "mystery" to describe those things written in scripture which are hard to grasp and make them "ours" so that we have perfect understanding of them with no doubt or confusion. I've not left much to the believer's imagination here because I'm not face to face with you, dear brethren, but what I've written I believe to be a more defined version of what God considers as a cloud in His Word. IT IS YOU, US! You/we are the cloud He really wants to inhabit - our resurrected hearts. He wants to "raise our hearts up into the heavenlies," or rather for us to believe we are already there with Him in the heavenlies where we are free of the influence of the (kosmos) world, where He alone can direct us (our hearts in heaven, our feet on the (ghay) planet.) This happens through study & prayer and eventually we "own" it through our faith of which each man has a measure. The truth is we really ARE in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus because it is written so, but how many of us believe this and live as if we believed it? "Where are you from?" "From Los angeles, from London." How many of us reply "from heaven?" I think the mistake we all make (I certainly did) is we are too fleshly - we look at our bodies and we know our bodies are not in the heavenlies, so we don't believe verses which tell us we are or that encourage us to be "caught up in God." However, He's only interested in our hearts and our heart must be in the heavens (air, spirit, pneuma) where He is and where His throne is. New Jerusalem descends from heaven down to earth, so if we are New Jerusalem, it's only logical we must be in heaven in the first place. What I'm saying is that we have a misconception of what God's talking about when He uses the word "heaven" in His word. But I really can't get into the subject of heaven here, clouds is enough, there is so much more on the subject of heaven (as I believe God wants us to see it) than what is commonly believed. I hope you enjoy what I've shared as much as I've enjoyed learning it and sharing it here with you.Read more: What does the Bible teach about the rapture Part 2
In Revelations 12 The women about to give birth represents the believers of Christ who is presecuted by the devil. About to give birth are new converts, the torrent river out of the mouth of the dragon is the devil watering down the word of God and believers importances in the world. The rapture is on the scipture Revelation 12:14 God hides the women about to give birth who is Christians in the wilderness for a time The world tries to help in the next verse. Resurrection of the body of Christ in Revelations 20:4-6
Hi, I got an email there was a post. I like what you wrote. The Lord gave me the same info but from a different angle regarding the water from the dragon's mouth in Rev 12:15 The devil is a liar from the beginning and water in scripture is representative of words, therefore the only thing that issues forth from the devil's mouth are lies - and lies "water down" the effectiveness of the word of God (His potential life in us). As far as "rapture" is concerned - first let's be bold (and honest) and recognize the word does not exist in scripture then we can start with a clean slate. There is a "catching away" or a "being caught up" in the Lord which is right here in Rev 12:5 + Mt 24 + 1 (or 2?) Thess 4 - you can verify the scriptures but I believe you know them. I've come around to see this as a spiritual catching away. 'Air', 'heaven', 'pneuma','spirit' all are composed of the same 'substance' and therefore have a commonality. A spiritual "catching away" is when the heart of the believer is totally and unreservedly given over to the Holy Spirit to the exclusion of man and the (kosmos) world - rather as the prophets of old. The person who does this has basically died to the world (2 Jn 5:4) which gives us victory over the world through faith. Jesus said if we seek to keep our lives (earthy values) we'll lose them and if we lose our lives (earthy values) we'll live. In the process of divorce from this (kosmos) earthy system - which includes religion - we find His life and we live in the heavenlies where, as His sons, we are fed hidden manna and drink living waters. These heavenly riches are not dispensed by man but by the living God, our Father, who gives unto His sons whatsoever they ask till they can't contain it any longer, hence the fulfillment of what Jesus said - "they shall have no need of teachers for they shall all be taught of God." These are the true riches which God desires to bless His children with, not filthy lucre and whatever it can buy - God forbid. Praise Him forever!!Read more: What does the Bible teach about the rapture Part 2
Just to clarify a little further, this is not a work of man, it is begun and finished by the Holy Spirit in our hearts. An illustration would be how we use the term "being caught up" today. Have you never been "caught up" in a project? People sometimes get "caught up" in their jobs to the exclusion of their family. Sometimes I get "caught up" in a project and my wife has to remind me of the time. This is why I think it's important to drop the term "rapture" because the word lends a whole new meaning to what is written and (I believe) actually meant by these scriptures. At the same time I'm NOT denying that we will actually be physically "caught up" into the air and the clouds (as was Jesus) - that is very possible - but I doubt it will happen in the lives of those who, yes, are believers, but who are still "caught up" with this (kosmos) world and its values. I believe the "catching away" begins first in the heart - we must be "caught up" in Jesus and what He's doing every minute of our lives to the exclusion of all else. Rom 8 says they that follow the Holy Spirit are the sons of God.
Jesus is only coming for His Bride; this will exclude many Christians. Why? They fail to seek out the Holy Ghost so He can make them without spot, wrinkle or any such thing. I opened a thread about the necessity of the Holy Spirit.
I gotta check that thread out (sounds good.) I do believe you are right and scripture DOES suggest this in the parable of the wide and narrow paths and those that bang on the door to be let in saying 'In your name we have done this and that" and He replies 'Depart from me you evil doers for I know you not.' I would say that these folks are believers because of what it is they do in His name, but I believe also they are those who honor Him with their lips while their heart is far from Him. They have, as you say, not allowed Him to transform them, they think like men, they have not cried out for His righteousness to be worked into them, they are satisfied with the things of this (kosmos) world and by it have made their choice. Another angle is the body. Paul teaches we are the body of Christ but let's first examine how a body works. The brain tells the arm to bend, the hand to pick that up, the nose to sniff that piece of cheese, the legs to walk to the other side of the room, the knee to bend, etc. Now the arm doesn't meditate for a minute or half and hour to see whether it heard right or whether it will obey the brain or not. Why? Because it is TOTALLY submitted to the brain, it has NO WILL OF ITS OWN (it has died to self) so its obedience is instant. The whole body is so in tune with itself, the arm IMMEDIATELY obeys the brain and does what it's instructed to do. If it doesn't it's just about USELESS to the body and risks being cut off. What if one leg obeyed and the other refused? The body would go around in circles. Of course, I'm speaking figuratively and we all know the Lord is longsuffering and patient with His people, however, the reality is His types (and shadows) are not 2D they're 3D (or 9D[?]) and the more we meditate upon and research them the more truth and meaning we extract from them - which in turn transforms us from being earthly to being heavenly (spiritual.) So my question is, taking into account what I have just laid out can we honestly consider ourselves part of His body? Are we instant in obedience? Are we brutal with ourselves when it comes between choosing what the Lord is directing us to do and what appears to be the "decent" thing to do? (this is how we know if we fear God or if we fear man.) If not, we must be honest, repent and ask Him through His Holy Spirit to change us in that area till we "own" it - or, if we're strong in faith we can just believe we are the new creature He says we are and thank Him for it. After all this IS our inheritance and what He's promised to us so He'll never refuse us. However, it's pretty much guaranteed He'll test us all in our commitment to Him. And it's not a work of the flesh either because it will always be Him initiating the command - it will not be coming from our imagination or a desire 'to do good for God.' It's no different than the cloud by day and the flame by night in Moses' camp in the desert - it was always God that made the first move. However, God's eyes move to and fro throughout the earth seeking those whose hearts are perfect, complete and His. He knows those who are - and He sets them apart for Himself. These are they who "love not their lives unto death" and "follow the Lamb withersoever He goeth." In turn, these saints also know their God and are bold and fearless and able to do great exploits because of this confidence. In all honesty, in a congregation of 500 saints, there may be as few as three or four who really are His own - and this is His will, God was never into numbers, always into quality (commitment to Him as opposed to man.)
A good illustration the Lord gave to me one day to help us grasp this truth was the example of the hot air balloon. You have the balloon, burner, fuel, (hot) air, basket, ballast and ropes. Fire up the burner with the gas and slowly the balloon fills with hot air causing it to rise from the earth till it hovers over the basket. The increasing volume of hot air fills the canopy of the balloon so that eventually the basket also hovers in the air (and the people in it.) However, no matter how much the balloon strains to leave this earth it cannot until the ropes that tether it are released. This is why it is harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven than a camel to go through the eye of the needle. You just CANNOT have it both ways. It's like the monkey who sticks his hand through the bars of the cage to grab the bait but because of his bunched up fist cannot extract his hand or the bait through the bars to get free so eventually gets caught. So when the ropes (pride of life, lust of the eyes, etc.) that hold the balloon to the earth are released or cut, that balloon can sail majestically skyward. It's automatic, there's nothing in the way to stop it and it will happen. So it is with the kingdom of heaven. As we let go of this world and all its values and systems and place our trust and confidence in the Lord only (to the exclusion of man and especially religion [and law]) He draws us upwards into the heavenlies where He dwells; He feeds us heavenly food from the tree of life. He gives us pure, crystal clear water to satisfy our thirst which issues forth from the throne of God and of the Lamb (Rev 22:1) as opposed to (Jos 3:16) the waters of Jordan (Jordan was in flood at the time of harvest and a river in flood is full of mud, Jordan also means descend or descender) that flow down from Adam (man) and descend to the Dead Sea aka Salt Sea or Sterile Sea (death, no life). Our commitment is the fulfillment of Matthew 13:46 when the merchant of pearls "SELLS ALL" in order to buy the pearl of great price. "Selling all" is the same as "cutting the tethers" to this (kosmos) world. It's emptying our heart of every desire and ambition we have, handing over the keys of our heart to the Lord and saying "drive."
The word of God is so precious - we must be thoroughly "wetted" with it. Amen!
In Revelations 12 The women about to give birth represents the believers of Christ who is presecuted by the devil. About to give birth are new converts, the torrent river out of the mouth of the dragon is the devil watering down the word of God and believers importances in the world. The rapture is on the scipture Revelation 12:14 God hides the women about to give birth who is Christians in the wilderness for a time The world tries to help in the next verse. Resurrection of the body of Christ in Revelations 20:4-6
The wilderness in REV 12 :14 is not paradise but protection here on earth.Most likely Petra in Edom [ Daniel 11 :41 / Matthew 24:16 ]
Rev 12 :1-6 is a picture of Mary, Joseph, and Jesus fleeing to Egypt when Herrod is trying to kill Jesus.
The Woman is Mary,the dragon[satan] is Herrod,and the Child is Jesus.The place prepared is Egypt.
Rev 12 1-6 Covers the time span of Jesus from His birth on earth to His enthronement.
Rev 12 has absolutely nothing to do with a Pre-Tribulation "rapture".
The following verses are what the Bible teaches about a pre-tribulation "rapture".
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Hi, riceweevil. That's all very well to say what you have written with such confidence, but are you sure you speak the truth? Read Rev 1:1 carefully for it says "This is the revelation of Jesus Christ. God gave it to Him to show His servants the things that must happen soon." King James says, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass;" Now, if the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written with the intent of telling the servants of the living God "things which must shortly come to pass", then it is talking of the future, NOT the past. Jesus' birth, His flight into Egypt, Herod, etc. you must admit are all events in the past. Please correct me if I'm wrong or fill me in with any hidden truth you may have come across that I may not have yet learned....
And the way I see it, this forward-lookingness of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is what makes this book such a fascinating study. It is also intensely personal. As far as I know it is the only one of all 66 books with a blessing attached to it: "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophesy, and keep those things which are written therein:" And because of this incentive I would say God WANTS us to examine this book real, real closely. And I think I understand why - it is such a spiritual book, so impossible to understand with the human mind, that in studying it we are forced to seek Him for understanding, and therein is the blessing - we draw much closer to him as a result. Also the truth in this book is very transforming. We must remember the name of the book - the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The unveiling, the taking off of the cover of Jesus Christ. And who is Jesus Christ? Jesus (the head) and Christ (the anointed.) Jesus is God, He is the everlasting Father, the "anointed" is His body (us) in whom He dwells.
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