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Thank you sciotamicks I will study your post closer tomorrow.
I have one more question are you saying all people that commit suicide will never live again?
PS I do appreciate your answer.
I am a Full Preterist, so in regards to everything that is prior to the New Heavens and Earth has already been accomplished. There are various descriptions to the lake of fire, gehenna, etc in the New Testament, but those areas of eternality existed only for the resurrection of the dead in Revelation 20. What exists now IMO, is separation as per what is outside of the gates. Since the NH and NE is the spritual/kingdom hub from the throne to the church, and encompasses only those in Christ, what exists in there only denotes the church in their incorruptible bodies we we all have now, in Christ, and is forever eternal, shy of the second death.
The only conclusion I could have for you in regards to a suicide, is that the person that commits this, has destroyed the very tabernacle God had graced Him with, whether it be made without hands in Christ, or it be earthly in Adam, it is still His creation. The covenant Adam broke with God brought on not physical death, but spiritual separation from Him and His Garden, wherein the covenant was consummated. So too, is that covenant, in the New Heavens and New Earth, there exists a separation, of those that are not in Him.
In 1 Corinthians 6, Paul is still speaking to the congregation at Corinth, setting the premise for his discourse on the body, and reminding just how precious our body in Christ, whether it be the corruptible, or the incorruptible, it is still His.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...... Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Our corruptible body was bought with a price, from Christ's blood, and the desecration of that very body, obstructs the option of obtaining the incorruptible body, which is the gift we recieve when we accept Him into our life and follow Him earnestly.
I hope that has helped some. I can elborate further, but I understand you must chew on some of this. We can talk further soon enough.
sciotamicks, if you really communed with God, He would have told you that your Preterism is heresy and would have told you that He "will have all mankind to be saved . . . for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim.2:4-6).
Suicide is just another sin of many sins Christ died for and covered as the propitiatory shelter which sheltered not only our sins but the sins of the whole world also (see 1 John 2:2).
Your doctrines breed pride and self-sufficiency apart from God.
If we can stay on topic for this thread: sciotamicks, do you believe God desires to save Hitler? I know you clicked YES above saying God desires to save all people, but now you are saying Hitler is not a person anymore?
So God does not desire to save those who committed suicide? Is that what you are saying? Your post confused me. Seems like you are trying to redefine words so you can still say God desires to save all people.
sciotamicks, if you really communed with God, He would have told you that your Preterism is heresy and would have told you that He "will have all mankind to be saved . . . for Christ gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim.2:4-6).
Suicide is just another sin of many sins Christ died for and covered as the propitiatory shelter which sheltered not only our sins but the sins of the whole world also (see 1 John 2:2).
Your doctrines breed pride and self-sufficiency apart from God.
Not only a ransom for all but to be testified by all in due time as well.
I'm surprised no Calvinists have shown up. The Calvinists I know would answer "NO" God does not desire all people to be saved. So far we have a 100% YES vote...
I'm surprised no Calvinists have shown up. The Calvinists I know would answer "NO" God does not desire all people to be saved. So far we have a 100% YES vote...
FWIW, I am reformed in my world view (i.e. Calvinist if you must put me in a box). I believe the answer to your question is "Yes" based on my comment y-day.
I do however believe that Jesus did not die for everybody as he died for all those that God gave Him.
FWIW, I am reformed in my world view (i.e. Calvinist if you must put me in a box). I believe the answer to your question is "Yes" based on my comment y-day.
I do however believe that Jesus did not die for everybody as he died for all those that God gave Him.
Thankyou for your explanation. Now a quesiton:
Do you honestly believe God desires to save everyone, yet He then sends His son to only die for a few, thus ensuring that not everyone will be saved? Does that not strike you as absurd and double-minded of God?
Most Calvinsts who think about this logically, come to the conclusion that God does not desire everyone to be saved, otherwise He would have sent His son to die for everyone. To claim God desires to save everyone, and also claim He doesn't even send His son to save everyone is a logical absurdity. And thus begins the many problems with Calvinism.
Do you honestly believe God desires to save everyone, yet He then sends His son to only die for a few, thus ensuring that not everyone will be saved? Does that not strike you as absurd and double-minded of God?
Most Calvinsts who think about this logically, come to the conclusion that God does not desire everyone to be saved, otherwise He would have sent His son to die for everyone. To claim God desires to save everyone, and also claim He doesn't even send His son to save everyone is a logical absurdity. And thus begins the many problems with Calvinism.
Well, it's not so much as what I believe as it is what the Bible says. My focus is on the big picture that God is pure love. There is no hint of evil in Him. God does not take pleasure in death or evil. God is also just (a character of God that some people gloss over). The wages of sin is death and will always be death. Being that He is just and He chose to save for Himself a remnant is beyond my comprehension. There is no one that deserves to enter eternal fellowship with God b/c all have sinned.
So to answer your question, no, I do not think that it is double-minded of God at all. I think it is God being God. Who am I to question what God does? How can I, the created, question what God, the Creator, chooses to do? If He decides to save some that is totally within His right as God to do so no matter how "double-minded" I think He is.
Sciotamicks, I asked participants of this poll to be honest. Why were you not honest in your answer? In this poll you answered "Yes", God desires all people to be saved.
You say this: "1 Timothy 2:4 (NKJV) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Doesn't this teach that God wants all men to be saved?
No!"
At worst, this is outright lying, at best this is gobbledygook theology mixed with word redefinition, which renders the discussion of ideas meaningless.
For clarification of the poll, when I ask "Does God desire all people to be saved (including Hitler, etc)?", I'm asking does "Does God desire all people who have ever existed to be saved?". Can you clarify your answer sciotamicks?
Well, it's not so much as what I believe as it is what the Bible says. My focus is on the big picture that God is pure love. There is no hint of evil in Him. God does not take pleasure in death or evil. God is also just (a character of God that some people gloss over). The wages of sin is death and will always be death. Being that He is just and He chose to save for Himself a remnant is beyond my comprehension. There is no one that deserves to enter eternal fellowship with God b/c all have sinned.
So to answer your question, no, I do not think that it is double-minded of God at all. I think it is God being God. Who am I to question what God does? How can I, the created, question what God, the Creator, chooses to do? If He decides to save some that is totally within His right as God to do so no matter how "double-minded" I think He is.
Quite right, we cannot question what God does, He is going to do what He will anyway.
But, what we can question is man's interpretation of God. In your case, your interpretation of God is that He desires to save all, but then doesn't provide the means to save all. I would question that interpretation. That interpretation is double-minded. And it is contrary to several scriptures, but especially this one:
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Now I know Calvinists will bend this verse to suit their model of limited atonement. If that is your belief, fine, but at least be honest enough to admit that God doesn't really desire to save all, because by only offering a limited atonement He is ensuring that many will not be saved.
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