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In scripture it is only a sin that is unforgiven for this age and the next age. There is no true unforgivable sin, because as scripture says, "All sins are forgiven". I went over this in my previous post, that's why I was surprised by your question.
Its very clear in this literal translation:
Mark 3:28 "Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming,
29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin"
All sins and blasphemies will be pardoned (forgiven). But blasphemy against the holy spirit is not pardoned for the eon.
Good question. Perhaps it is speaking about mocking/rejecting the holy spirit that is not repented of. I don't know specifically. But regardless, it will be forgiven, just not in this age or the next.
You are reaching again. You are making things up to fit your system. I say this to you Legoman, because I have read your words on this forum. What Bible do you use that speaks this? I have a number of Bibles, I also have a number of Jewish resources from the Old Testament. I have established a Unforgiven Sin. I could give you books on the subject. I could post more links (honestly I was surprised there are so many).
Christ proclaims this sin unforgiven and eternal. Contrary to everything you claim, and yet you still persist. Could it not be your foundation has been built on sand and there is no purge of sins in torment?
I don't understand why people keep insising that there is only one age to come?
Why do people keep insisting that there is...
1. the present wicked age
2. one more age to come after that
...when Paul plainly states that there are at least two more ages to come???
Ephesians 2:7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
This is been posted multiple times and people just ignore and bypass this without addressing it as if it was never posted.
I have not ignored it. It is not speaking of multiple ages, it is speaking of two ages. There was in Paul's day the uncompleted age of men which Paul recognizes, and the age beyond which is of Christ.
It is also interesting that Universalists use Paul alot. Paul is an apostle to Christ, again not Christ to Paul. Paul's writings were letters to believers at first. He sent them to the churches, as instructions and reasons to bear Christ. Not as some mass non Christian doctrine. It is quite clear. It is not ignored or bypassed, it is clearly not relevant to how it is being used in your discussion.
Again the words of Christ clearly state it is unforgiven and eternal. Does Paul contend with Christ? It is the root of the issue. Pray on this and you will find you argue falsely.
I have not ignored it. It is not speaking of multiple ages, it is speaking of two ages. There was in Paul's day the uncompleted age of men which Paul recognizes, and the age beyond which is of Christ.
It is also interesting that Universalists use Paul alot. Paul is an apostle to Christ, again not Christ to Paul. Paul's writings were letters to believers at first. He sent them to the churches, as instructions and reasons to bear Christ. Not as some mass non Christian doctrine. It is quite clear. It is not ignored or bypassed, it is clearly not relevant to how it is being used in your discussion.
Again the words of Christ clearly state it is unforgiven and eternal. Does Paul contend with Christ? It is the root of the issue. Pray on this and you will find you argue falsely.
Never once did Christ say the unpardonable sin is eternal.
Jesus said this:
Mat 12:32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eonnor in that which is impending."
Mar 3:29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-"
The eonian penalty is the penalty pertaining to this eon and the impending 1000 year eon.
From http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm: (broken link)
Ray Smith writes:
--
I will prove that both of these eons, over which Christ will reign, have beginnings and have ends, which excludes any possibility that they last "for ever."
See its simplicity: There was a time before God made any eons (I Cor. 2:7). Then God made the eons (Heb. 1:2). There were eons in the past (Col 1:26). We are living in this present wicked eon (Gal. 1:4). Satan is the god of this eon (II Cor. 4:4). Christ, not Satan, will reign a thousand years in the next eon (Lk 1:33). The thousand years will come to an end (Rev. 20:3). Christ will reign in the eon that follows the thousand years (Rev. 22:5 and Lk. 1:33). Hence, He reigns for the "eons" (the next two) "of the eons" (all others).
Then the last eon comes to an end (I Cor. 10:11). Christ ceases to reign after the eons come to an end (I Cor. 15:24:28) because He turns over the Kingdom to God His Father and God becomes "all in all." The eons end, but that which is of the Kingdom continues (Lk 1:33 & Isa. 9:7). We all continue "living" after the eons because, just like God, we will then all have been given immortality.
--
I don't see a fault in his reasoning. It is all based on scripture. Look up the scriptures yourself. I did and it makes sense - there are at least two eons to come.
This is a scriptural reach at best. Nothing speaks of this as true. Go to Revalation. The New Heaven and New Earth are not spoken of until after Satan is destroyed. The 1000 year reign of Christ which many point to happens in this age. Once judgement comes upon man then The New Heaven and New Earth come about. Satan is destroyed and sin is no more. Two Ages nothing more and by God in his grace and mercy nothing less, for if there was less no man could be saved. Reread Revelation 20 and notice at Revelation 21 it speaks of a New Heaven and a New Earth.
Notice the second death before Rev 21.
Notice anyone not found in the book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire.
Then notice in Rev 21 a New Age. Sin is gone. Unrepentant man is cast away to be with the devil and his angels.
Lego you are a smart person. Pray on this you have been and will continue to lead people astray with your words. There is a judgement coming and is a Christians duty by Christ to point to judgement. If you do not and teach anything less you are in dire peril.
Ecclesiastes 1:10 says there were past ages (or "eternities" Hebrew 'olmim')
Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages (Gr. æons) that were before us. (Douay-Rheims Bible)
ος λαλησει και ερει ιδε τουτο καινον εστιν ηδη γεγονεν εν τοις αιωσιντοις γενομενοις απο εμπροσθεν ημων (LXX)
there are definitly more than two æons
Again another reach. This Bible is more often used by Traditionalist Catholics then it is Christians. Ironically it contained the apocrypha first and then was revised to remove it. Most Universalists here discount what began the Catholic church as surpressing the "original" view of the church.
And in regards to your scripture.
It no where is speaking of even multiple ages, but periods before David's existance and of things of futility in man's existance (more specifically without God). David covers this in almost everything he speaks of in other scripture. Again this is an example of taking one scripture out of context letting it stand alone, and not in the complete word of the Bible.
Of note much of Solomon's words also confirm this.
The unpardoned sin is just what it says it is. It will not be pardoned in this eon/age or in the eon/age to come:
Mat 12:32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that (eon) which is impending."
So it is very simple. They just won't be pardoned and so must do the full time for the crime, that time being "this eon and that which is impending." The impending eon is 1000 years in duration.
Our system is much like theirs. In ours if one commits a crime and go to prison and the governor or president does not pardon them then they must remain incarcerated until they complete the time of their sentence. Not being pardoned does not mean they remain behind bars for eternity.
Now you can believe that "God will save all mankind for Christ gave Himeslf a ransom for all." (1 Tim.2:4-6).
Again a reach. The 1000 year reign of Christ does not begin a new age. Men can still sin in this age and the devil is removed to give man no excuse to say they were deceived to sin. There is no New Heaven and Earth till after the Judgement.
And your 1 Tim scripture is very true, but no where does it say all would accept the price paid for their ransom. All of scripture clearly denotes that man rejects God, but only a few accept him. Again another example of making a scripture stand alone and not with the complete history of why we needed Christ in the first place.
Man knows of two ages that deal with man's salvation. The age that began with Adam, and the age where sin is judged and cast out. This is what we are to concern ourselves with, and why we must witness to men of Christ and the coming end of this age. Men are finite, we are made for these two ages.
The Bible relates the age of God to sinful man, and shows us the future age where we can be in Christ Jesus thru repentance. It gives us a glimpse of a New Heaven and a New Earth, but past that there is nothing. This is why The Lord Jesus Christ calls himself the Alpha (beginning of the time of man in Adam) and the Omega (the end of time in man, which is judgement, in Christ). Then we see a New Heaven and a New Earth.
Originally Posted by Eusebius The unpardoned sin is just what it says it is. It will not be pardoned in this eon/age or in the eon/age to come:
Mat 12:32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that (eon) which is impending."
So it is very simple. They just won't be pardoned and so must do the full time for the crime, that time being "this eon and that which is impending." The impending eon is 1000 years in duration.
Our system is much like theirs. In ours if one commits a crime and go to prison and the governor or president does not pardon them then they must remain incarcerated until they complete the time of their sentence. Not being pardoned does not mean they remain behind bars for eternity.
Now you can believe that "God will save all mankind for Christ gave Himeslf a ransom for all." (1 Tim.2:4-6).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73
Again a reach. The 1000 year reign of Christ does not begin a new age. Men can still sin in this age and the devil is removed to give man no excuse to say they were deceived to sin. There is no New Heaven and Earth till after the Judgement.
A reach? Okey dokey. If you say so.
Actually, Christ reigns for 1000 years. That, dear friend, is an eon or age.
I agree that men can still sin in this age, but if Satan is removed why are the nations deceived and hate God? He is not removed. Not till Christ begins His reign is he removed. Read Revelation 20.
I agree the new heavens and earth comes after the judgment. That judgment happens at the end of the 1000 year reign. Again, read Revelation 20.
Quote:
Aschultz73 wrote: And your 1 Tim scripture is very true, but no where does it say all would accept the price paid for their ransom. All of scripture clearly denotes that man rejects God, but only a few accept him. Again another example of making a scripture stand alone and not with the complete history of why we needed Christ in the first place.
There is a good reason why choice is left out of 1 Timothy 2:4-6. Once one has been ransomed (2:6) they must be freed! Read all about the ransom in the Old Testament. Not once was one not freed who was ransomed. Philippians 2:8-11 shows the outcome of 1 Timothy 2:4-6. All rejection done away.
Quote:
Aschultz73 wrote: Man knows of two ages that deal with man's salvation. The age that began with Adam, and the age where sin is judged and cast out. This is what we are to concern ourselves with, and why we must witness to men of Christ and the coming end of this age. Men are finite, we are made for these two ages.
No. We are living in the "current wicked eon" (Galatians 1:4) and then there is the 1000 year eon to come then the new earth eon = three eons.
Every eon ends with a great earth shattering cataclysm:
1st eon: Genesis 1:1,2 The earth because chaos.
2nd eon: Genesis 2 to the flood.
3rd eon: from the flood to the great world-wide earthquake
4th eon: from that earthquake to the earth destroyed by fire
5th eon: a new earth comes out of those ashes
Quote:
Aschultz73 wrote: The Bible relates the age of God to sinful man, and shows us the future age where we can be in Christ Jesus thru repentance. It gives us a glimpse of a New Heaven and a New Earth, but past that there is nothing. This is why The Lord Jesus Christ calls himself the Alpha (beginning of the time of man in Adam) and the Omega (the end of time in man, which is judgement, in Christ). Then we see a New Heaven and a New Earth.
There is a thousand year reign when Christ returns.
Then after that the new earth.
Read Revelation 20,21 if you don't believe me.
Never once did Christ say the unpardonable sin is eternal.
Jesus said this:
Mat 12:32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eonnor in that which is impending."
Mar 3:29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-"
The eonian penalty is the penalty pertaining to this eon and the impending 1000 year eon.
Again he did not call it unpardonable, it is called an eternal sin and it is not forgiven.
Also if you continue to call it unpardonable like is generally known then fine, but it should be more aptly called the Unpardoned Sin. Jesus calls it eternal sin and unforgiven, thus making it unpardoned, not unpardonable.
And yet again the 1000 year reign is not a new age, but a continuing age of man. Your focus on defining it by a time period is not correct. It is part of the overall age of man. The Bible is the history man from creation to judgement. Only in Revelation does a New age come in. I have posted this and it is fairly clear.
A reach? Okey dokey. If you say so.
Actually, Christ reigns for 1000 years. That, dear friend, is an eon or age.
I agree that men can still sin in this age, but if Satan is removed why are the nations deceived and hate God? He is not removed. Not till Christ begins His reign is he removed. Read Revelation 20.
I agree the new heavens and earth comes after the judgment. That judgment happens at the end of the 1000 year reign. Again, read Revelation 20.
There is a good reason why choice is left out of 1 Timothy 2:4-6. Once one has been ransomed (2:6) they must be freed! Read all about the ransom in the Old Testament. Not once was one not freed who was ransomed. Philippians 2:8-11 shows the outcome of 1 Timothy 2:4-6. All rejection done away.
No. We are living in the "current wicked eon" (Galatians 1:4) and then there is the 1000 year eon to come then the new earth eon = three eons.
Every eon ends with a great earth shattering cataclysm:
1st eon: Genesis 1:1,2 The earth because chaos.
2nd eon: Genesis 2 to the flood.
3rd eon: from the flood to the great world-wide earthquake
4th eon: from that earthquake to the earth destroyed by fire
5th eon: a new earth comes out of those ashes
There is a thousand year reign when Christ returns.
Then after that the new earth.
Read Revelation 20,21 if you don't believe me.
There is nothing that supports your eon theory in scripture. The basic concept is the sin of man, not wordly events or judgements. If you can break age down scripturally then do it. Point to where it says a New Age is at the flood or an Earthquake. It does not because we are in the age of sinful man. We have never been outside a wicked age. Sin persists. You are making more out of something that is basic in nature. When the New Age comes sin and all who partake of it are removed. It is fairly clear.
In short since Jesus is God and God is infinite, since Jesus spoke of this sin being unforgiven and eternal, then it is clear to what he spoke.
Galatians 4 doesnt establish a new age, it clearly speaks of the age of sinful man. You are making something out of what it is not. Again a reach.
There is nothing that supports your eon theory in scripture. The basic concept is the sin of man, not wordly events or judgements. If you can break age down scripturally then do it. Point to where it says a New Age is at the flood or an Earthquake. It does not because we are in the age of sinful man. We have never been outside a wicked age. Sin persists. You are making more out of something that is basic in nature. When the New Age comes sin and all who partake of it are removed. It is fairly clear.
In short since Jesus is God and God is infinite, since Jesus spoke of this sin being unforgiven and eternal, then it is clear to what he spoke.
Galatians 4 doesnt establish a new age, it clearly speaks of the age of sinful man. You are making something out of what it is not. Again a reach.
Did I say Galatians 1:4 establishes a new age? Please re-read what I wrote rather than blathering ignorance.
The point I was making is this: We are in "the current wicked eon" (Gal.1:4). And since we are in the current wicked eon and there are two RIGHTEOUS eons to come (1000 years and new earth) then there are more eons/ages than what you suggest.
Try to learn something before making stupid statements.
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