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I believe that if there are conflicting interpretations of passages and/or the understanding of God's plan, that we should give the benefit of the doubt to God's character - his love, grace, mercy, holiness, justness, etc., even if this doesn't agree with what we've been taught in the past.
It's been my experience, that not having a literalist reliance on the text, requires an element of faith.
One could substitute UR in the above paragraphs with ET (eternal torment) and the same point would be made. No one should only take the parts of the Bible they like and ignore the rest.
Revelation has the lake of fire as the second death by which Satan and his angels, and non-believing sinners will be cast into, and if death is defated by the victory in Jesus Christ by it being cast into the lake of fire, then whatever goes into that lake of fire is not coming back out.
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I started this thread because I am geninuely curious about what/who people trust first as the basic guide for their beliefs. Should our interpretation or a pastor/teacher's interpretation of the Bible be our guide to decide who God is, or should the Holy Spirit living within us be our guide to help us understand the Bible?
I used to trust the Bible/man's interpretation first to help me understand God, but as I matured as a Christian I first trusted God's character to help me understand the Bible.
I trust the Lord Jesus Christ to be My Good Shepherd in helping me to understand His words as He helps e to follow Him as I do so by faith in Him.
That means things that the church has taught me which I did not think twice about.. the Lord has shown me by His words the truth and thereby reproving the works of darkness by the light of scriptures.
The irony of all this UR push is that better time would be well spent in reaching the lost than trying to get more believers to accept this false teaching. Indeed, UR would take away the need to believe and repent now... and yet now is the time of salvation: now is the time to call on Jesus to save us from our bondage to sin and to death: not after death.
And I am wondering how many are believers in Jesus Christ that are pushing this UR and how many that are not believers in Jesus Christ that are pushing this UR.
Can there be an accord with infidels? No.
2 Corinthians 6:14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
If by the scriptures, believers are called to seperate themselves, then how can there be any agreement with unbelievers over the UR when God is calling believers to have no agreement with them?
I understand the point about the OP, but in application: one has to wonder just how one interprets scriptures and using UR as an example is the only way I can convey that point across: nevertheless, it is on God to cause the increase as I know that I cannot convince anyone if they cannot hear His words, then they will not hear mine.
Revelation has the lake of fire as the second death by which Satan and his angels, and non-believing sinners will be cast into, and if death is defated by the victory in Jesus Christ by it being cast into the lake of fire, then whatever goes into that lake of fire is not coming back out.
And I am wondering how many are believers in Jesus Christ that are pushing this UR and how many that are not believers in Jesus Christ that are pushing this UR.
Regarding the lake of fire, you can choose to:
1) First trust the interpretation you've been taught and conclude that God will burn people infinitely, giving the traditional interpretation the benefit of the doubt.
Or
2) First trust the character of God - love-mercy-peace-joy-forgiveness-justness-holiness, giving God the benefit of the doubt, and scrutinize the scriptures with that in mind to determine if the traditional interpretation is correct.
There are two ways to approach your faith. Faith in yourself/interpretation of the Bible first, or faith in the character of the Lord first. Maybe God is in the midst of the (symbolic) lake of fire like he was in the burning bush and the fiery furnace. Maybe the much-ignored verses that say God is a consuming fire and that he'll baptize with water and with fire make sense now. Maybe the verse that says a man's works will burn but he himself will be saved make sense now. Maybe the lake of fire has to be symbolic because by the very laws of nature a lake would put out a fire, and a fire would burn up people, not torture them forever.
This thread is not specifically about UR, but since you brought it up, it doesn't make sense to accuse people who believe that Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient to save everyone of not believing in Jesus. If anything, they should be accused of believing in Him too much!
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 03-08-2010 at 03:32 PM..
Reason: added some stuff
Of all the least trustworthy bases for deriving any certainty about the faith . . . it is Revelation. I am absolutely astounded at the certainty expressed here about the interpretations of that enigmatic symbol-ridden book.
I believe that if there are conflicting interpretations of passages and/or the understanding of God's plan, that we should give the benefit of the doubt to God's character - his love, grace, mercy, holiness, justness, etc., even if this doesn't agree with what we've been taught in the past.
what is the etc?????? but you still run into the problem if you have God's nature incorrect. We shouldn't fill in the blanks if we see "contradictions". That is adding to God's word. Scripture must interpret scripture instead of using our finite, fallen, sinful "intellect" of believing who God is to interpret scripture we should leave it as is and succumb to the position that in our fallen state it is unknowable and not sit in judgment of God's word.
what is the etc?????? but you still run into the problem if you have God's nature incorrect. We shouldn't fill in the blanks if we see "contradictions". Scripture must interpret scripture instead of using our finite, fallen, sinful "intellect" of believing who God is to interpret scripture we should leave it as is and succumb to the position that in our fallen state it is unknowable and not sit in judgment of God's word.
Wonderful, counsellor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, etc. etc. From what I have said, what part of God's nature do you believe I have incorrect?
I certainly don't judge God's Word. God's Word is Jesus.
John 1: 1,2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
Revelation 19:13 KJV
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Wonderful, counsellor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, etc. etc. From what I have said, what part of God's nature do you believe I have incorrect?
I certainly don't judge God's Word. God's Word is Jesus.
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I believe that if there are conflicting interpretations of passages and/or the understanding of God's plan, that we should give the benefit of the doubt to God's character
I didn't say you did. I said, what if we have God's nature incorrect then how is our interpretation correct? If we "give" the benefit to God's character" in interpreting scripture. who is really the authority of scripture us or God? If we don't use ONLY scripture to interpret scripture then we are making up things and that is sitting in judgment of God's word.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 03-08-2010 at 03:52 PM..
I didn't say you did. I said, what if we have God's nature incorrect then how is our interpretation correct? If we "give" the benefit to God's character" in interpreting scripture. who is interpreting scripture us or God? If we don't use ONLY scripture to interpret scripture then we are making up things and that is sitting in judgment of God's word.
Oh. I misunderstood and thought you said I had his nature incorrect. I see what you mean. If someone believes God's character is vindictive and they use that basis to interpret scripture, they will come up with a different interpretation than someone who believes God's character is redemptive.
I still don't agree, though, because we have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us so that we can truly know God. "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with your whole heart." I still believe we must first know God and let the Holy Spirit lead us in understanding the Bible.
what is the etc?????? but you still run into the problem if you have God's nature incorrect. We shouldn't fill in the blanks if we see "contradictions". That is adding to God's word. Scripture must interpret scripture instead of using our finite, fallen, sinful "intellect" of believing who God is to interpret scripture we should leave it as is and succumb to the position that in our fallen state it is unknowable and not sit in judgment of God's word.
Absolute utter nonsense. You have abandoned all faith in the Holy Spirit within that is available to us and you ignore what has been "written in our hearts." You have abandoned all faith in the LIVING God for dead words "written in ink." How can you believe our God would want mindless unthinking unfeeling robots blindly reading dead letters instead of listening to the living Holy Spirit within revealing what God has "written in our hearts?"
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-08-2010 at 04:58 PM..
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I would say more a leap of faith 
