Cincinnati Versus Suburbs - Makes No Sense (Mason, Sycamore: school districts, income)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

But if they are decidingly improving a poor job is being done getting the word out. I say that since the general perception, both in and outside of the City apparently is they are still poor.

My friend, word is out in the city of Cincinnati. I found out the straight skinny from my realtor, who had his kids in Sands Montessori. Cincinnati has some excellent schools, both public and private. I would have to say perhaps word has not reached you because you are not in the inner city scene, so to speak.

Does that make CPS an excellent school system? Nope, they need improvement.

Does that mean schools that have the fancy banners and hype test scores are actually competant? Not necessarily.

But, for the city dwelling parent such as myself, I have many options to choose from and I know full well that none of those options are worth spit without me and my wife at the center of his education.

[The Don]

White flight certainly has had and still is having an effect on center cities' population (in this area, it affects more than just Cincinnati, by the way).

I am trying to understand the phenomenon of business flight - why? I work in Blue Ash and over the last 30 years have seen an explosion of office buildings in the area.

Currently, there is a significant development under construction on Reed Hartman not too far from Cornell on what was previously an undeveloped (green field). I see that and then wonder with all the brown fields present in the City of Cincinnati proper, why can't some of those be used for new development. It's not due to accessability, since many of the brown fields are much closer to expressways than are the suburban construction.

The only observation I have, is that if this continues, Cincinnati will be a donut - much like Detroit is today.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by The Don

The only observation I have, is that if this continues, Cincinnati will be a donut - much like Detroit is today.

Nah, there are a lot of businesses downtown, along with new office tower construction. Cincinnati is a lot more diversified than Detroit, Cleveland, Dayton - manufacturing towns, and when the manufacturing left it wreaked havoc.

Not to say Cincinnati did not suffer loss of manufacturing jobs, it sure did. But it has weathered the storm much better. This is evidenced by the very vibrant downtown and we are loaded with Fortune 500 companies.

Oh, the white flight you speak of? From my point of view (living uptown) white flight is from the suburbs into OTR.

[CinciFan]

Originally Posted by The Don

I see that and then wonder with all the brown fields present in the City of Cincinnati proper, why can't some of those be used for new development.

Where exactly are these fields you speak of?

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

My friend, word is out in the city of Cincinnati. I found out the straight skinny from my realtor, who had his kids in Sands Montessori. Cincinnati has some excellent schools, both public and private. I would have to say perhaps word has not reached you because you are not in the inner city scene, so to speak.

It is not important at all whether word reaches me, but if it was spreading it would reach me.

What is important is that people all over, particularly those looking to relocate to Cincinnati from elsewhere, get the word CPS is a fine school district. This is what I do not see happening, even on this very forum when people ask questions about schools.

This is the reason I am not at all in favor of a county wide system of government in Cincinnati. The argument about the efficiency of combining services I just do not buy. Whenever government expands and becomes larger, the little guy gets lost. There is no reason they be paid any attention to.

I would like to see CPS be broken up into 3 or 4 separate districts. Then it should be readily apparent which is doing a good job and deserves respect and which doesn't. It is certainly large enough to be split up. The only reason I can see why it is not is it diminishes the higher up jobs.

[TomJones123]

^^ I recently moved here and word reached me.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

^^ I recently moved here and word reached me.

But you recently stated your son is enrolled in SCPA, not your neighborhood school. So the word seems to me more than a little spotty. I am not trying to dish Cincinnati or start an argument, just stating a still generally accepted fact that CPS has a long way to go. Why can't the people of Cincinnati seize control and make it happen?

Other districts only have the schools they have for one reason, the people demand it.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by The Don

I am trying to understand the phenomenon of business flight - why? I work in Blue Ash and over the last 30 years have seen an explosion of office buildings in the area.

Currently, there is a significant development under construction on Reed Hartman not too far from Cornell on what was previously an undeveloped (green field). I see that and then wonder with all the brown fields present in the City of Cincinnati proper, why can't some of those be used for new development. It's not due to accessability, since many of the brown fields are much closer to expressways than are the suburban construction.

To me it is very simple. A certain percentage of people are willing to commute daily into the inner City for jobs. Beyond that there are people who have no desire to do that. They want to work much closer to where they want to live, further out in the suburbs. Businesses realize that. They also realize these people are among the brightest at the jobs they do. So they locate their business operations where it is attractive to these workers. That is generally called good business.

We have several of not only good sized office parks out where I live but also businesses making a honest to goodness hard product, called manufacturing.

The question is simply how this will evolve. That is a question still not answered.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

But you recently stated your son is enrolled in SCPA, not your neighborhood school.

He is in SCPA for his musical interests. We looked at a variety of magnet schools. And as I stated earlier, some of the neighborhood schools are a disaster and mine is one of those. No sugar coating anything, some schools are bad. But to say CPS is terrible is wrong. There are a lot of good options and our realtor broke them down quite honestly.

[kjbrill]

Just another observation.

What is now over 65 years ago, when I was growing up in Madeira, it was undergoing a tremendous growth spurt caused by people moving into Cincinnati to work at GE Evendale and needing a place to live. The majority ot these people were engineers, etc. who valued education. They just flat out demanded the Madeira schools be more than adequate, and in addition were willing to pay the taxes to support it. Madeira enjoys the fruit of that legacy today, still having high ranked schools after all this time. And yes, taxes in Madeira are high to support it. But in my estimation property values there definitely reflect the value of the schools.

Mason is similar in that it has went through an explosion of residential growth. A lot of people who decided to move here also wanted good schools. People recognized that and complied. As Mason has built out the value of the property has steadily increased, I feel primarily due to the excellence of the schools. One seems to follow the other.

So Cincinnati needs to find a method to connect its residential renaissance to a renaissance in its schools. Just residential refurbishment by itself is limited. If once people have kids they flee to the suburbs you have lost them.

So I feel Cincinnati needs an organization similar to 3CDC but which is dedicated to the regeneration of the schools at the same time the residential neighborhoods are redeveloped. Neighborhood associations such as those restorationconsultant participates in would be a lot easier if there were another group fighting for the regrowth of the schools, and winning.