Brent Spence Toll Bridge? (Middletown, Nashville: tax, cost of, eat)

[woxyroxme]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

They will probably be as bad as the lines I've seen on I 90 west of Boston and the New Hampshire tolls on I 95 in the summer. A literal nightmare of traffic. I 75 in Covington and Cincy will look like that.

I-90 to I-395 in Mass is a nightmare because of the toll backup. There are cash lanes and ez-pass lanes, after that it's a drag race as the cars go through. Toll booths aren't just inconveinient but a hazard as well.

[goyguy]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

Very few large cities have any kind of toll bridge let alone one at a critical location on a major highway in the downtown area. None in fact.

Let's see...in NYC there are the Triboro, Whitestone, and Throgs Neck bridges in addition to the GW - not to mention the Holland and Lincoln tunnels in the "downtown area" - which all have tolls.
You can't drive north or east from San Francisco without paying to cross your chosen span.
And in Boston you have the Tobin Bridge connecting the North Shore suburbs to the city, unless Charlestown isn't "downtown" enough to count, and it links up with I-93.
I think three holes in that specious argument is enough.

As for merchants in Covington, they'd likely come out ahead. The small percentage of drivers on 75 who are actually headed there would use the Bailey or Suspension bridges while other toll dodgers would be treated to Greenup St, Mainstrasse, etc up close.

But because of the trucking lobby tolls on the Brent Spence aren't going to happen anyway.

[jlawrence01]

In Texas and Chicago, among others, they have OPEN ROAD TOLLING where no one has to stop for a toll if they get a transponder or they go online and pay the tolls.

That eliminates the hazards related to toll booths.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by goyguy

Let's see...in NYC there are the Triboro, Whitestone, and Throgs Neck bridges in addition to the GW - not to mention the Holland and Lincoln tunnels in the "downtown area" - which all have tolls.
You can't drive north or east from San Francisco without paying to cross your chosen span.
And in Boston you have the Tobin Bridge connecting the North Shore suburbs to the city, unless Charlestown isn't "downtown" enough to count, and it links up with I-93.
I think three holes in that specious argument is enough.

As for merchants in Covington, they'd likely come out ahead. The small percentage of drivers on 75 who are actually headed there would use the Bailey or Suspension bridges while other toll dodgers would be treated to Greenup St, Mainstrasse, etc up close.

But because of the trucking lobby tolls on the Brent Spence aren't going to happen anyway.

Those bridges are not located in downtown Manhattan. Triboro is on Wards Island. The Whitestone in five miles east in the Bronx. Throggs Neck runs from the Bronx to Queens. Again, several miles outside of Manhattan. The GW is on the northern tip of Manhattan which is several miles to Midtown and certainly Lower Manhattan.

The Tobin runs from Chelsea to Charlestown. That is not downtown Boston though granted it is only about two miles to the downtown district. But that is hardly the heart of the downtown district or even considered a part of the downtown area. It's NW of the old North End which is arguably the edge of downtown. Some of these holes have been amply filled with concrete.

How are merchants going to come out ahead? Construction is going to discourage people from coming into Covington and existing residents likely will go to services in other areas to avoid the increase in traffic on local roads. I drive enough to know what road construction like this can do to the areas around it. Just the construction alone is going to cause a lot of businesses to lose customers for a couple of years. If anything if they have to rip off the drivers they should set up tolls on I 275 somewhere to pay for the cost of the bridge. Gives them some more of our money to mismanage eh?

People can try to rationalize all they want about how this project is going to have a minimal if not, beneficial impact on the areas around it. But that is not the case at least not while the construction is taking place. And the tolls especially at the prices they've quoted $1 to $2 per trip each way is going to cost people a lot of money if they have to commute that way every day for five days a week.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

In Texas and Chicago, among others, they have OPEN ROAD TOLLING where no one has to stop for a toll if they get a transponder or they go online and pay the tolls.

That eliminates the hazards related to toll booths.

Yeah, except my point that not everyone has an EZ Pass is quite relevant. They are still going to need booths to collect tolls from people such as those from Canada (no doubt trucks pass through with Canadian plates) and people like myself that don't use EZ Pass. There is nothing in the law that requires someone to buy a transponder. This project is not only a major headache to NKY and downtown Cincy but a ripoff of the taxpayers of OH and KY.

[unusualfire]

Just so you know. It would be tolled to get it built now or the next couple of years. if it's not tolled it will be 20 years before anything is constructed.

[WILWRadio]

^^^ There is supposed to be Federal aid for public works projects like this. Where is it? Isn't this going to qualify as one of those "shovel ready jobs" that our President told us about?

[WILWRadio]

If the people involved with this project had any sense, they'd build a tunnel under the river and put the highway in that. A small version of Boston's Big Dig. At least the impact on the downtown areas of Covington and Cincy would be lessened and it would open up land above the highway for development which in turn, the taxes could help fund the project.

[Coseau]

This is the downside of living in a automobile dependent nation.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by Coseau

This is the downside of living in a automobile dependent nation.

Coseau--

No, it's the downside of having gasoline taxes fund mass transit, which it has been doing since 1983. Mass transit spending accounts for 20% of the money that goes into the "highway" trust fund. (source - 2.86 cents/gallon goes into Mass Transit Account). Another 2.5 cents of the gas tax goes to the general fund for deficit reduction. Those two account for at least a third of what should be in the road fund.

It's why gas taxes no longer cover the cost of road repairs and maintenance - because the money is being siphoned elsewhere.

Spend that money on replacing the Brent Spence and a couple other high-priority road projects. Problem solved.