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First of all, San Francisco is not anywhere near what Philadelphia is today.
What Philly is today does not beat SF as far as urbanity(for sure). SF is more refined, more bucolic, more of all the snooty stuff that makes a city trendy and sophisticated(not that I really care for that scene, but SF wins that category) Also, call me back when the best shopping in Philadelphia is not found in a suburban mall. If Downtown SF were ever topped by a suburban mall as far as shopping, I think most SFcans would DIE.
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Population density: Philadelphia's peak population density, in 1950, was 15,333.3333(repeating) per square mile.. without any giant apartment complexes and with plenty of industrial areas
Yawn.
Every city has industrial areas, your nothing special in that regard. San Francisco has about 17,500 persons per square mile in 2010, more than Philadelphia has ever had in its history.
No further discussion on the topic is needed.
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Secondly, San Francisco has a better PT than Philadelphia? You may want to check out what Philadelphia and its entire metro used to have, when Penn Railroad was competing with Reading and even before the two gobbled up all of the little companies that they were competing with. That system puts San Francisco's to shame, as well as a lot of places not named NYC to be honest.
You should be embarrassed to continuously bring up what Philadephia used to be like.
And the Bay Area has more transit riders than the Philadelphia Area.
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Vibrant?
Downtown SF wins.
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Now on to what being urban is actually about.
Your reason below are strange.
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Find me communities as strong in any West Coast city as they are in Philadelphia, and not a situation where the only communities are communities of immigrants. Not likely to happen.
What do you mean by 'strong'?
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Find me people as hard-nosed as Philly people, as resilient, as unwilling to have things forced upon them, as quick to fight for what they believe in or what they feel is right in San Francisco or anywhere on the West Coast.
Name any place in America where people sit by and allow things to be forced upon them.
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You all love to talk about counter-culture out there, but if you want real counter-culture then all you need to do is look at Philadelphia's (and the entire metro's) history.
Really? The entire metro is ready to go to war at a moment's notice?
Somehow I doubt that.
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Those people put up fights bigger and harder than anybody on the West Coast could ever dream of.
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We were born to protest and be disobedient and go against the grain.
Not really, you have become conformist, run of the mill, fearful to be different people, I mean sheeple--just like most people everywhere.
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"Urban planners" didn't invent what urban is.
And ghetto areas of old east coast cities do NOT own the patent on the word 'urban'.
'Urban' is a term that evolves to match the times and location, its doesnt have to be some really ugly place. Sorry we're just not like that.
Last edited by JMT; 02-11-2012 at 08:22 PM..
Reason: Come on, please keep the rules about posting images.
And the Bay Area has more transit riders than the Philadelphia Area.
You do know that Septa only represents part of the total transit riders in the Philadelphia region.
Did you forget that the Philadelphia area is comprised of multiple states. When you factor in New Jersey Transit and DART ridership, the Bay Area does not have more transit ridership than the Philadelphia area.
By the way when you factor in Amtrak ridership for the Philadelphia area, the ridership gap widens even more when compared to the Bay Area ridership numbers.
You do know that Septa only represents part of the total transit riders in the Philadelphia region.
Did you forget that the Philadelphia area is comprised of multiple states. When you factor in New Jersey Transit and DART ridership, the Bay Area does not have more transit ridership than the Philadelphia area.
By the way I didn't even factor in Amtrak ridership for the Philadelphia area, which would widen the ridership gap even more compared to Bay Area ridership numbers.
They are actually pretty close, one issue is the reference numbers for Montclair include multi seat rides, which can count a single person 8 times on the stats posted; the average seats per rider in SF is nearly twice that of Philly. Hence would suggest Philly has a little higher ridership, or actually more unique belly buttons but SF does have pretty decent ridership numbers. On effeciency of coverage I find Philly a little better. One thing I do know for sure is that Philly has far more capacity unused today which is sad. The RR lines with zero change could handle over a million passengers a day. So much missed PT opportunity on the Septa system sadly.
They are actually pretty close, one issue is the reference numbers for Montclair include multi seat rides, which can count a single person 8 times on the stats posted; the average seats per rider in SF is nearly twice that of Philly. Hence would suggest Philly has a little higher ridership, or actually more unique belly buttons but SF does have pretty decent ridership numbers. On effeciency of coverage I find Philly a little better. One thing I do know for sure is that Philly has far more capacity unused today which is sad. The RR lines with zero change could handle over a million passengers a day. So much missed PT opportunity on the Septa system sadly.
I'm not arguing with that. San Francisco's really the only West Coast city that is anywhere near what an East Coast city is.
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Originally Posted by kidphilly
One thing I do know for sure is that Philly has far more capacity unused today which is sad. The RR lines with zero change could handle over a million passengers a day. So much missed PT opportunity on the Septa system sadly.
And that's the difference.
Our system at its peak and its ridership blows SF's completely out of the water.
Yet another reason to hate SEPTA (and especially to hate the people running the state in Harrisburg).
I'm not going to bother arguing with Cali boosters on this thread anymore. I just set them straight. 18Montclair can keep going on all he wants but the fact is that San Francisco will never be what Philadelphia was, let alone what its metro was... and what both will be again someday
If Downtown SF were ever topped by a suburban mall as far as shopping, I think most SFcans would DIE.
Is that because all of the hipsters would have to trot back out to the vanilla suburbs from which they came? Is there anyone on this board who is actually from the city of San Francisco?
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Not really, you have become conformist, run of the mill, fearful to be different people, I mean sheeple--just like most people everywhere.
Hold up. Waaaait a minute. Didn't we create all of the flavor you guys mass consume? Moving into a $3,000 per month apartment, buying an assortment of Apple products, and wearing ironic tees does not make you creative. And it doesn't hide the fact that you're a lame ass from who grew up in a leafy suburb now posing in a "hip" urban enclave with other lame asses who grew up in leafy suburbs.
I know both cities intimately well. Ppl with an east coast background will choose Philly likely because of its similarities and proximity to NY. Ppl from west of the Mississippi will likely side with SF. The tie breaker will be immigrants. I'm sure some stat suggests that Philly has more immigrants and the percentage I don't know. But in my opinion, when traveling abroad, other major super cities look at SF as a premier destination. I'm a noted fan of both. A frequent visitor who lives in, and visits major world metros. SF has a style that no other major city has in this country beside NYC. There is a global respect, love and admiration. Mark Twian once said, "In the US, it's New York, New Orleans and San Francisco. Every place else is Cleveland." Whereas I'm not implying that, I'm acknowledging those 3 cities are individually unique in this country. Again, I'm a noted fan of both. Two great homes. #notbashingphilly
Last edited by 75 South; 02-11-2012 at 11:55 PM..
Reason: Grammar
Is that because all of the hipsters would have to trot back out to the vanilla suburbs from which they came? Is there anyone on this board who is actually from the city of San Francisco?
Hold up. Waaaait a minute. Didn't we create all of the flavor you guys mass consume? Moving into a $3,000 per month apartment, buying an assortment of Apple products, and wearing ironic tees does not make you creative. And it doesn't hide the fact that you're a lame ass from who grew up in a leafy suburb now posing in a "hip" urban enclave with other lame asses who grew up in leafy suburbs.
"Go, go, go, go, go, go!!" That's that San Francisco authenticity for ya.
smh at posting a breakdancing video in Fisherman's Wharf to represent the "authenticity of SF". That would be like posting a video of Norteño music in Times Square to represent the authenticity of NYC. You could have tried a little harder to correctly profile the target.
At some point, people should realize that pics and videos prove very little when presented as a sweeping, broad, all encompassing 'fact' about an entire city, culture, race etc.
I mean, how many times does a person have to be told that presenting vids as sweeping truth is essentially meaningless, juvenile and feeds on stereotypes before they get it?
Ugh.
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