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HI GUYS friendly reminder that ARTS SCENE includes popular music, visual art, performance art, theatre and opera, classical music, dance, public art, poetry, sculpture, creative writing, and many many more kinds of art. It's incredibly restrictive to both cities to only think about art as paintings and rock bands - there's so much more than that!
I don't have the time or resources to do a fair comparison of Philly and Mpls in all those categories, but I would guess that they are very close to equal. They both seem to be only a tier down or so from NYC, and they are similar in that they are constantly overshadowed by Boston, San Francisco, and the PNW.
Those are the most vital current forms of art - some of what you've included is generally the rote repetition of old forms. In terms of new, vital arts that are a recognized part of the culture as a whole, visual (includes sculpture) and music carry the most weight. You're correct regarding writing, though the impact of "authors" just isn't what it used to be. That said, Philly bats below its weight for music and Minny above; overall they're pretty close. Visual arts I think clearly goes to Philly.
Those are the most vital current forms of art - some of what you've included is generally the rote repetition of old forms. In terms of new, vital arts that are a recognized part of the culture as a whole, visual (includes sculpture) and music carry the most weight. You're correct regarding writing, though the impact of "authors" just isn't what it used to be. That said, Philly bats below its weight for music and Minny above; overall they're pretty close. Visual arts I think clearly goes to Philly.
How does Philly bat below it's weight for music though? Historically Philly has been one of the most influential cities for music.
The Sound of Philadelphia, American Bandstand, Rock and Roll/Doowop/Hip-Hop/R&B/Soul/Gospel. I actually love the music venues in Philly, but I'm sure Minneapolis has a great scene too-clearly above it's weight. The Mann Music Center, Underground Arts, Electric Factory, Kung Fu Neck Tie, Johnny Brendas, Trocadero are some of my favorite venues in Philly-all different sizes.
Philly also has some unique music culture, like a major Traditional Irish Music scene with weekly sessions at bars across the city and region and the oldest Irish music festival (also the oldest and one of the largest Folk Music Festivals). And of course, I'm sure Minneapolis has nothing like the Mummer string bands haha (love em or hate em).
How does Philly bat below it's weight for music though? Historically Philly has been one of the most influential cities for music.
The Sound of Philadelphia, American Bandstand, Rock and Roll/Doowop/Hip-Hop/R&B/Soul/Gospel. I actually love the music venues in Philly, but I'm sure Minneapolis has a great scene too-clearly above it's weight. The Mann Music Center, Underground Arts, Electric Factory, Kung Fu Neck Tie, Johnny Brendas, Trocadero are some of my favorite venues in Philly-all different sizes.
Philly also has some unique music culture, like a major Traditional Irish Music scene with weekly sessions at bars across the city and region and the oldest Irish music festival (also the oldest and one of the largest Folk Music Festivals). And of course, I'm sure Minneapolis has nothing like the Mummer string bands haha (love em or hate em).
Minneapolis has also been very influential. Bob Dylan got his start in Minneapolis. Prince and the whole Minneapolis Sound of the late 70s and 80s was very influential. Hüsker Dü, the Replacements, and Soul Asylum influenced the Grunge scene. Minneapolis doesn't have much in regards to Irish festivals, but St. Paul does. The Irish Fair of MN is one of the largest Irish festivals in the country.
Minnie doesn't have the Mummer string band, but we do have the World's Most Dangerous Polka Band
If you read this whole thing--congrats. At least I was being thoughtful in my responses unlike most responders that I've noticed on here.
Read the whole thing. It's unusual for someone to revive a dormant thread to do anything more than troll. I like the thorough comparison you made so I'm posting to offer kudos.
I've never been to MPS except to change planes years ago. All I know about it is the Guthrie and Mary Tyler Moore throwing her hat downtown. That said, I've heard it's a very nice city. Since I don't have personal knowledge of MPS, I can't offer any direct companions, but will make just a few observations on your post.
First:
Quote:
Originally Posted by primo579
First of all, I think this thread should be contextualized within the frame of 'what is the best bang for your buck.' That is, ask the question of what each city can offer given its context--since both are underrated cities, what do you get for the going rate (what you pay for and/or what you expect given it's recognition status etc)? In that sense, I find that both are nearly at equals.
Yes and no. Depending on what one wants, quantity can be as important as quality. Let's say someone really value fine dining. You say MPS has such restaurants that rival those in Philly, but just a smaller number of them. So now let's say MPS has 25 such places and Philly has 50. That person wouldn't care how the many each city has on a per capita basis - they would prefer the city with more options. The same goes for someone who values art - that person would more enjoy a city with a larger number of art galleries, museums, performing arts companies, etc. In some instances, size does matter.
Even though I can't make personal comparisons, there are two criteria you compared the cities on that I question. The first is art. You limit your assessment to popular music, reference "pictorial" art and call it a draw. Again, I don't know MPS's art scene, but I think a fair comparison needs to take into account museums, galleries, theatre, opera, symphony, dance, and film. As someone who moved here 2+ years ago from Houston (which can claim a pretty vibrant art scene), I am impressed by the number and quality of offerings here. MPS may match it, but I'd need to know a lot more.
The second criteria I question is "cleanliness." Really - is the city a dump? I think CC, where I live, is very clean. I see the CCD folks sweeping the streets daily. Again, I don't know MPS but know its downtown is newer. I'm just wondering if you might be comparing a kind of sterility new cities possess with the grittiness of the older more established cities. I know Philly has more than its share of ghettos, but in addition to CC, there are lots of pretty nice neighborhoods, including Queen Village, Bella Vista, Passyunk, South Philly, GradHo, U City, Clark Park, Manayunk, East Falls, W Mt Airy, City Ave and Chestnut Hill. So no - even if you find MPS cleaner, I take issue that Philly is a dump.
That said, I repped you for a fine post.
Last edited by Pine to Vine; 08-23-2013 at 11:50 AM..
If you read this whole thing--congrats. At least I was being thoughtful in my responses unlike most responders that I've noticed on here.
I think you provided a very fair and balanced assessment. The fact that you have lived in both cities gives you a particularly valuable perspective, as well..
I will say that (being objectively as possible), I just think Minneapolis seems almost impossible to compare to Philly. Certainly it's not quite like comparing Philadelphia to Phoenix, but other contextual aspects are important. As a post-industrial city (much more than Minneapolis), there is definitely much more intractable poverty in Philly -- this manifests itself into more violent crime, blight and, yes, litter.
However, I think it's fair to say that Philly is considered one of the major urban heavyweights of the US (typically considered among the "Big 6" along with Boston, NY, DC, Chicago, SF). Hence, the living environment seems completely different, which largely stems from being a preeminent manufacturing center in its day and the dense housing/building that went along with that.
Today, although it's arguably the "laggard" among the "Big 6," its density and history makes for a major asset, particularly in terms of attracting urbanites priced out of other expensive, highly urban cities. This is aside from the simple fact that Philly anchors a much, much larger metro area than MLPS/SP.
I mention this, because I think it has become very clear that this is giving Philly a competitive advantage from its strongly urban heritage, which I think will only grow greater in the years to come. The renaissance is coming in the form of more cultural amenities, more cutting-edge restaurants, etc., and slowly but surely, new jobs.
All in all, with all due respect Minneapolis, which has many enviable aspects, I think the potential and current momentum in Philly makes for a very compelling choice.
I find this impossible to believe. There are on avg. 40 live music events per weekend night in Philly. Atlantic City casinos have headline music acts all summer long.
There are benefits that come with living in a larger metro and the Philadlephia metro being 2x the size of Minn-St Paul afford it more entertainment options.
I'll bet if you asked 100 people outside Minn 99 of them would have no idea what you are talking about when you mention First Avenue or Guthrie.
The Guthrie is one of the most well known theaters and is widely considered one of the finest theaters in the country if not the world. Anyone that saw the movie "Purple Rain" has heard of First Avenue (whether you liked the movie or not). It is obvious that you have no clue in your last sentence, but are entitled to your opinion.
I don't know that you really want to mention Atlantic City when promoting Philadelphia, but that is your choice. St. Paul across the river from Minneapolis has a thriving Irish music scene to complement Minneapolis' strength in various music genres and is actually in the same state as Minneapolis.
I find this impossible to believe. There are on avg. 40 live music events per weekend night in Philly. Atlantic City casinos have headline music acts all summer long.
There are benefits that come with living in a larger metro and the Philadlephia metro being 2x the size of Minn-St Paul afford it more entertainment options.
I'll bet if you asked 100 people outside Minn 99 of them would have no idea what you are talking about when you mention First Avenue or Guthrie.
...and probably all 100 people living outside PA and having never visited PA would not have heard of a club or a theater in Philly. For those two in Minneapolis I would say at MOST 75 people would not have heard of them and I am being generous.
BTW, Yahoo maps show the distance from Philly to Atlantic City as 62 miles. I thought it would be more. The distance from Minneapolis to St. Paul is 10 miles.
Both cities have great entertainment and cultural options and are highly respected in their regions and for the most part in the rest of the USA, too. That is my final word on the subject and it is great that we are each proud of those cities!
...and probably all 100 people living outside PA and having never visited PA would not have heard of a club or a theater in Philly. For those two in Minneapolis I would say at MOST 75 people would not have heard of them and I am being generous.
BTW, Yahoo maps show the distance from Philly to Atlantic City as 62 miles. I thought it would be more. The distance from Minneapolis to St. Paul is 10 miles.
Both cities have great entertainment and cultural options and are highly respected in their regions and for the most part in the rest of the USA, too. That is my final word on the subject and it is great that we are each proud of those cities!
The Kimmel Center is pretty well known, a few others as well. Not being difficult, but any cultured person at least in the northeast, would know a lot of the theater/cultural landmarks in Philadelphia. Much moreso than anything in Minneapolis.
Minneapolis has also been very influential. Bob Dylan got his start in Minneapolis. Prince and the whole Minneapolis Sound of the late 70s and 80s was very influential. Hüsker Dü, the Replacements, and Soul Asylum influenced the Grunge scene. Minneapolis doesn't have much in regards to Irish festivals, but St. Paul does. The Irish Fair of MN is one of the largest Irish festivals in the country.
Minnie doesn't have the Mummer string band, but we do have the World's Most Dangerous Polka Band
I lied...one more FINAL comment, but at least I am not sparring with anyone in this comment...
When you also consider the talented people in the music business that move out of Minnesota (Dylan, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis) and those that remains are still a considerable amount of talent. I find that remarkable.
Then you have the current group of rappers (incredulous...I would have had you committed to an institution ten years ago if I was told this would happen in MN) like Atmosphere, Doomtree, and others from the Rhymesayers label. I am not a rap fan, but this is still a a very unexpected contribution to the music scene.
So Minneapolis has everything from polka to rock to classical to rap! I think there is an electronic music scene, too, but do not have detailed knowledge on it.
Philadelphians should also be proud of what they have and who can ever forget the very popular American Bandstand!
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