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I focus on shopping alot with dt DC because I remember when major shopping was a part of dt DC. E, F and G streets from 7th to 15th streets packed to the gills with thousands of shoppers on Saturdays or the weekday lunchtime office workers. Woodies, Hechts, Garfinckels department stores. And even before my time Kanns and Lansburgh dept stores too. The roasted peanuts carts, the Safeway International on F street between 11th and 12th. Santa Claus and the beautiful Christmas display windows at Woodward & Lothrop. The last time I was in DC I actually stood at 11th and F streets one Saturday afternoon and and got a liitle sad as to what was and what is. People on the streets? Yes, but not nearly as crowded as it use to be. Many City Data people are too young to remember. Major retail needs to come back to dt DC.
I remember! F street was closed to traffic between 7th & 9th because there was a gritty looking vendor mall. DT DC has never been the shopping mecca that other cities posses but it deserved better retail. Actually, I love the make up of DT DC as it is today.
I'm actually surprised Detroit and Milwaukee made the list. For the economic struggles they have had, and the general location and weather, I would have thought other cities would be on that list. Overall, cities in warmer climates tend to be more accepting and vibrant. However, Seattle made the list as well and they have some of the most dreary weather in the country. That just shows how much work they have put into their downtown scene. They don't have the best transit going into the city, but once you are in downtown, they offer a free bus zone and have pretty good sized parks for how little space they have.
I'm not saying that it's bad. But outside of Bayside which makes up a very small of the area, downtown Miami dies after 5PM. If you want to see any action, head on down to Coconut Grove and of course, South Beach. It's also very small and not very vibrant even during the day. It's improving. But I would replace Miami with New Orleans quite easily.
I honestly think they're not qualified to list the top 10 best downtowns since I doubt they've been to all of the downtowns of major cities and thoroughly examined them by specific criterias. What about Portland, San Diego, Denver and others. Downtown Detroit and Milwaukee better than Dt. Portland and Denver? Something fishy about this list.
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
I'm not saying that it's bad. But outside of Bayside which makes up a very small of the area, downtown Miami dies after 5PM. If you want to see any action, head on down to Coconut Grove and of course, South Beach. It's also very small and not very vibrant even during the day. It's improving. But I would replace Miami with New Orleans quite easily.
ok, I wasn't taking it that way. I just wanted to know why you said that. I have not been to Miami so I wouldn't know but in general people boast about Miami
As an SF native who has been to Philadelphia several times, I give the edge to downtown SF over center city philly. SF's downtown has more highrises, more office space, an equal or larger population compared to Center City (depends on how you define Center City), and feels bigger and denser (which it is, though not by a large amount), and is a bit more busy overall. Philly is impressive, but SF has a size advantage combined with an advantage in vibrancy that Philly can't quite match. It makes sense: SF is the 2nd densest big city, and its three densest hoods are in downtown (the Tenderloin) or partially in it (chinatown, nob hill). Philly has no hoods as dense as those, downtown or elsewhere. In addition to that, SF has a larger main shopping district (union square) which attracts not only shoppers from around SF and the Bay Area, but throngs of tourists as well...thats another thing; there are more tourists in dt SF. Downtown SF is also more diverse than center city, both ethnically/racially, and economically, which means it has more diverse amenities too.
I think this is mostly fair.
Two points; there are two census tracts in center city over 100K now (based on the latest census data (one in rittenhouse and one in old city). In terms of diversity, this is rapidly changing and Philly on population both in absolute and on growth is infilling faster than SF (because there was more room). Philly is expected to add another 20K (2,000 highrise units under contruction today alone) to the DT population taking over 100K (with a density of over 60K ppsm in the DT) in the Center City area in the next ten years.
The biggest difference is on shopping where Philly could be better and is not at the level of SF and to me this coupled with slightly higher density in SF makes for a slightly more active DT. Both really excel on cultural offerings and restaurants and bars. And both also have great connectivity (walkability) directly into the next nabes.
If Philly gets any traction on the redevelopment to the north of chinatown and along North Broad (both prime for development) and Market East gets better they could very well be even in the future (though shopping will likely be better in SF). From 1990 to today there was no comparison, today Philly is continuing to close th gap
Someone mentioned no tall DT Hotels in Philly earlier
This to me would actually qualify, and a great old building in re-use as the Loews (Also am gald to see the Monaco from Kimpton under construction in Philly (Believe Kimpton is a SF or CA chain) along with their other offering the Palomar and much prefer these to the W's and the like.
The Old PFSS Building and Loews Hotal (Oldest Air Conditioned Skyscraper in the Wolrd and considered in aechitecture to be the first International style skyscraper in teh world built in 1939)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kansas_sebastian/6346173245/ (broken link)
Honestly I think SF would get the edge but Philly has been closing the gap, just a little more activity overall in DT SF
Oddly to me Boston has actually become a tad sleepier in the last ten years, almost too clean. SF and Philly both to me feel a little edgier with a little more activity in SF
Not sure how much construction is going on in DT SF but there are 2,000 new high rise units alone going up in CC today and is expected to add another 8-10K in this decade and another 20K in the DT population; maintaining its double digit growth in the DT from last decade
Also 3 new DT hotels under construction and 5-6 apt/condos that could start this year and one additional hotel, good times in Philly these days and expect it will continue to get better
How come nobody's arguing this? You say that Philly has 2000 new highrises under construction as we speak. That doesn't make sense. Philly as we speak only has a little over 300 highrises to begin with. Chicago's as a whole city only has a little over a 1000 highrises. So your telling me that Philly right now has almost two Chicago's under construction? I don't buy it one bit. It doesn't make sense, and I am surprised no one has debated this. Where is your proof? Are you sure you mean highrises? Philly right now doesn't even have a fourth of that. Los Angeles alone that includes downtown and surrounding areas has only 500 highrises, yet Philly is adding 2000 highrises????. Basically Philly is adding a Toronto right now as we speak..You must have lost your mind if you think you can pass this off as fact..Show me the proof. Nevermind, I don't even need to see it. There isn't enough room in dt Philly to add 100 new highrises let alone 2000. I think you need to prove this, because if that's the case, Philly will surpass Chicago by 2 and a half within a couple of years and become the densest downtown in the world..Just don't buy it one bit. Dt Philly is sort of small compared to its population.
Two points; there are two census tracts in center city over 100K now (based on the latest census data (one in rittenhouse and one in old city). In terms of diversity, this is rapidly changing and Philly on population both in absolute and on growth is infilling faster than SF (because there was more room). Philly is expected to add another 20K (2,000 highrise units under contruction today alone) to the DT population taking over 100K (with a density of over 60K ppsm in the DT) in the Center City area in the next ten years.
The biggest difference is on shopping where Philly could be better and is not at the level of SF and to me this coupled with slightly higher density in SF makes for a slightly more active DT. Both really excel on cultural offerings and restaurants and bars. And both also have great connectivity (walkability) directly into the next nabes.
If Philly gets any traction on the redevelopment to the north of chinatown and along North Broad (both prime for development) and Market East gets better they could very well be even in the future (though shopping will likely be better in SF). From 1990 to today there was no comparison, today Philly is continuing to close th gap
Someone mentioned no tall DT Hotels in Philly earlier
This to me would actually qualify, and a great old building in re-use as the Loews (Also am gald to see the Monaco from Kimpton under construction in Philly (Believe Kimpton is a SF or CA chain) along with their other offering the Palomar and much prefer these to the W's and the like.
The Old PFSS Building and Loews Hotal (Oldest Air Conditioned Skyscraper in the Wolrd and considered in aechitecture to be the first International style skyscraper in teh world built in 1939)
41a Philadelphia Saving Fund Society Building (PSFS Building) - Loews Philadelphia Hotel - NRHP-76001667 (E) | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kansas_sebastian/6346173245/ - broken link)
Hey KidPhilly, I would like to look at the projects you are talking about in your reference to the 2,000 units in center city under construction. That is really exciting. Could you list the projects and provide some links to the renderings?
How come nobody's arguing this? You say that Philly has 2000 new highrises under construction as we speak. That doesn't make sense. Philly as we speak only has a little over 300 highrises to begin with. Chicago's as a whole city only has a little over a 1000 highrises. So your telling me that Philly right now has almost two Chicago's under construction? I don't buy it one bit. It doesn't make sense, and I am surprised no one has debated this. Where is your proof? Are you sure you mean highrises? Philly right now doesn't even have a fourth of that. Los Angeles alone that includes downtown and surrounding areas has only 500 highrises, yet Philly is adding 2000 highrises????. Basically Philly is adding a Toronto right now as we speak..You must have lost your mind if you think you can pass this off as fact..Show me the proof. Nevermind, I don't even need to see it. There isn't enough room in dt Philly to add 100 new highrises let alone 2000. I think you need to prove this, because if that's the case, Philly will surpass Chicago by 2 and a half within a couple of years and become the densest downtown in the world..Just don't buy it one bit. Dt Philly is sort of small compared to its population.
Ummm....he meant 2,000 units, not actual buildings.
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