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But socially liberal extends to more than just religious activity. Government programs that help the poorer elements in society are considered socially liberal, and Blacks tend to support this more. I think Blacks are also more likely to favor EPA monitoring/enforcement than to want to slice and dice it like the more conservative political folks do. I'd be interested if a study was done on Blacks' views on the legalization of marijuana for medical use. I suspect Blacks are more in favor of this than the more socially conservative folks in the US are. Hate crimes legislation is considered to be liberal, and often we do see conservative voices speaking out in disapproval of any such legislation. But Blacks support it. Preferences for college admission, though largely struck down thorughout the land with the support of conservative activists, was supported by Black communities by and large, and they support colleges actively using diversity as a goal, ie. using race somehow as a factor. Conservative voices don't support using race as a factor at all. If the schools end up lacking racial diversity- so be it is the way conservatives think.
Almost everywhere there is a strong Black urban presence, there is a strong Democratic vote, Republicans are either consistent laggards, or they struggle to win. And that is because in addition to being more fiscally progressive, Blacks generally have social views as I described above. The Clarence Thomasses are really the exception in the Black community, and by and large Blacks do not nor have they ever really embraced Clarence Thomas specifically BECAUSE of their more progressive social stances and his staunchly conservative social stances.
That's why using gay marriage as a barometer of political affiliation gives a false impression- it would make take a generally liberal/progressive community and make it appear as if they are actually by and large conservative.
I don't necessarily consider the things you mentioned to be social issues; they are essentially fiscal issues because they are economic issues for us, having been a disenfranchised minority for most of our history in the U.S. When you look at strictly social issues that don't involve any sort of inherent benefit to us as a people (e.g., gay marriage, abortion), we tend to land on the conservative side of those issues. These are the sorts of issues where you will see most Black Democrats and a good bit of White Democrats part ways.
I don't necessarily consider the things you mentioned to be social issues; they are essentially fiscal issues because they are economic issues for us,
EPA issues are more like don't pollute our neighborhoods. Medical marijuana also would seem like more of a social issue. Hate crimes legislation- hardly fiscal. Again, Clarence Thomas was widely treated with a roll of the eyes by the Black community in general for a reason.
I also believe, and would be interested to see studies on, Blacks generally come down on the side of progressive Democrats as opposed to conservative Republicans when it comes to the reach and use of America's armed forces around the globe. Conservatives basically want America to run a global empire and project military power around the globe, compelling others to do what we want to as great an extent as possible, no matter what the cost, whereas liberals want American military to protect America and to help friends when friends need help, but not run a perpetual global empire. (Interesting that it used to be the opposite- conservative meant try to stay out of everybody else's business like the Founding Fathers advised). But Blacks by and large come down on the side of Democrats on that issue as well.
So overall I do think the vote for president is a better barometer of determining commonality of political perspective than gay marriage. The vote for president encompasses all issues important to a voter rather than just focus on one. How many Blacks have ever actually voted for president based on gay marriage or abortion rights? I would argue few, especially in comparison to Whites. Those issues become like a microcosm, whereas a presidential election is more of a macro view, a big picture view, of where political affiliations are. So I find GA having more in common with NC than AL when it comes to macro politics, when it comes to ultiimately with all issues considered, and a single vote needing to be cast based on all issues considered, what side the people tend to come down on. I think the OP is keen in using the presidential statistic.
Or I'll frame it in a totally different way- if economic/fiscal issues are SUCH a strong factor in Blacks favoring Democrats that it overrides the extent of support Blacks have for conservatives on the gay marriage and abortion issues, then one can conclude that it dwarfs those 2 issues on overall importance. And to select as a barometer of political affiliation an issue that is so EASILY dwarfed by other issues, ie. that is so insignificant in comparison to other issues- seems to not be nearly as good an approach as selecting something that DOES reflect the order of importance of political issues, that DOES reflect what the people find to be most important when casting their vote. And apparently in what the citizens find of top political importance, GA tends to look more like NC than like AL.
EPA issues are more like don't pollute our neighborhoods. Medical marijuana also would seem like more of a social issue. Hate crimes legislation- hardly fiscal. Again, Clarence Thomas was widely treated with a roll of the eyes by the Black community in general for a reason.
I didn't think I needed to explicitly say that we're going to be in favor of policies that are directly related to discrimination, which in turn affects our health and livelihood. And you have no source on medical marijuana.
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Or I'll frame it in a totally different way- if economic/fiscal issues are SUCH a strong factor in Blacks favoring Democrats that it overrides the extent of support Blacks have for conservatives on the gay marriage and abortion issues, then one can conclude that it dwarfs those 2 issues on overall importance. And to select as a barometer of political affiliation an issue that is so EASILY dwarfed by other issues, ie. that is so insignificant in comparison to other issues- seems to not be nearly as good an approach as selecting something that DOES reflect the order of importance of political issues, that DOES reflect what the people find to be most important when casting their vote. And apparently in what the citizens find of top political importance, GA tends to look more like NC than like AL.
Oh I absolutely agree that the fiscal issues and those directly dealing with discrimination are more important to us than the social issues. We as African Americans are more "live and let live" on that front. But it's clear where most of us side when the social issues are isolated. This is why a state that went for Obama in 2008 also voted to ban gay marriage pretty decisively, although not as decisively as GA and AL.
I didn't think I needed to explicitly say that we're going to be in favor of policies that are directly related to discrimination, which in turn affects our health and livelihood.
Social aspects. It's understood that blacks are in favor of those social aspects, aspects relating to discrimination, so no you didn't need to explicitly say it for it to be the case. Point being it's how blacks tend to side on such social issues. And it's the opposite of what most conservatives conclude on such social issues. They would toss the hate crimes legislation if they could. They would just about shut the EPA down if they could.
And again I think national defense is another area where the black community tends to side more against conservative voices, or rather I should say neo-conservative voices.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
And you have no source on medical marijuana.
Which is why I said I'd be interested in seeing data on it but adding that it's my belief that the black community would be supportive. I certainly know I haven't seen a lot of backlash against the idea of it within the black community.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Oh I absolutely agree that the fiscal issues and those directly dealing with discrimination are more important to us than the social issues.
Which therefore is just another way to come to the conclusion of GA being more like NC politically than like AL. In AL they are more likely to let social conservatism rule their vote, ie. social issues tend to be more important than fiscal issues. That is much less the case in GA and NC. So when it comes to the political vote, and the progressiveness or conservatism that determines the political vote, again the OP made what I believe to be the correct connection or comparison/contrast.
Social aspects. It's understood that blacks are in favor of those social aspects, aspects relating to discrimination, so no you didn't need to explicitly say it for it to be the case. Point being it's how blacks tend to side on such social issues. And it's the opposite of what most conservatives conclude on such social issues. They would toss the hate crimes legislation if they could. They would just about shut the EPA down if they could.
And again I think national defense is another area where the black community tends to side more against conservative voices, or rather I should say neo-conservative voices.
Hmmm, not really sure about that one. The military is one avenue that African Americans have historically used to establish a career and get ahead in life, so I'd say we'd definitely be more in favor of sustaining current levels of funding although we're not so gung-ho about going to war.
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Which is why I said I'd be interested in seeing data on it but adding that it's my belief that the black community would be supportive. I certainly know I haven't seen a lot of backlash against the idea of it within the black community.
We don't "backlash." We're generally live and let live on these sorts of issues, but we'll make our positions on the matter known via the ballot box if the issue is up for a vote.
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Which therefore is just another way to come to the conclusion of GA being more like NC politically than like AL. In AL they are more likely to let social conservatism rule their vote, ie. social issues tend to be more important than fiscal issues. That is much less the case in GA and NC. So when it comes to the political vote, and the progressiveness or conservatism that determines the political vote, again the OP made what I believe to be the correct connection or comparison/contrast.
Politically, GA is somewhere between AL and NC but I can't say it's definitively more like NC. GA's immigration law might not be like AL's but they have one; NC doesn't. NC held off as long as it could in putting a gay marriage amendment to a vote while GA did it when it was the "in" thing to do a few years ago. GA doesn't even fund MARTA while NC does indeed help fund mass transit in NC. As a former NC resident and a current GA resident, the differences in the politics of both states are somewhat obvious to me. The disadvantage GA has is that Atlanta is truly the only center left/progressive area in the state, while in NC, that's dispersed among a handful of metros.
Hmmm, not really sure about that one. The military is one avenue that African Americans have historically used to establish a career and get ahead in life, so I'd say we'd definitely be more in favor of sustaining current levels of funding although we're not so gung-ho about going to war.
We don't "backlash." We're generally live and let live on these sorts of issues, but we'll make our positions on the matter known via the ballot box if the issue is up for a vote.
Politically, GA is somewhere between AL and NC but I can't say it's definitively more like NC. GA's immigration law might not be like AL's but they have one; NC doesn't. NC held off as long as it could in putting a gay marriage amendment to a vote while GA did it when it was the "in" thing to do a few years ago. GA doesn't even fund MARTA while NC does indeed help fund mass transit in NC. As a former NC resident and a current GA resident, the differences in the politics of both states are somewhat obvious to me. The disadvantage GA has is that Atlanta is truly the only center left/progressive area in the state, while in NC, that's dispersed among a handful of metros.
EPA issues are more like don't pollute our neighborhoods. Medical marijuana also would seem like more of a social issue. Hate crimes legislation- hardly fiscal. Again, Clarence Thomas was widely treated with a roll of the eyes by the Black community in general for a reason.
I also believe, and would be interested to see studies on, Blacks generally come down on the side of progressive Democrats as opposed to conservative Republicans when it comes to the reach and use of America's armed forces around the globe. Conservatives basically want America to run a global empire and project military power around the globe, compelling others to do what we want to as great an extent as possible, no matter what the cost, whereas liberals want American military to protect America and to help friends when friends need help, but not run a perpetual global empire. (Interesting that it used to be the opposite- conservative meant try to stay out of everybody else's business like the Founding Fathers advised). But Blacks by and large come down on the side of Democrats on that issue as well.
So overall I do think the vote for president is a better barometer of determining commonality of political perspective than gay marriage. The vote for president encompasses all issues important to a voter rather than just focus on one. How many Blacks have ever actually voted for president based on gay marriage or abortion rights? I would argue few, especially in comparison to Whites. Those issues become like a microcosm, whereas a presidential election is more of a macro view, a big picture view, of where political affiliations are. So I find GA having more in common with NC than AL when it comes to macro politics, when it comes to ultiimately with all issues considered, and a single vote needing to be cast based on all issues considered, what side the people tend to come down on. I think the OP is keen in using the presidential statistic.
Or I'll frame it in a totally different way- if economic/fiscal issues are SUCH a strong factor in Blacks favoring Democrats that it overrides the extent of support Blacks have for conservatives on the gay marriage and abortion issues, then one can conclude that it dwarfs those 2 issues on overall importance. And to select as a barometer of political affiliation an issue that is so EASILY dwarfed by other issues, ie. that is so insignificant in comparison to other issues- seems to not be nearly as good an approach as selecting something that DOES reflect the order of importance of political issues, that DOES reflect what the people find to be most important when casting their vote. And apparently in what the citizens find of top political importance, GA tends to look more like NC than like AL.
You know I never really look at it that way before, but other than religion and gay marriage African Americans are basically liberal. Beside fiscal issues civial rights ideals tend to be more liberal. You got to think about gun laws, racial profiling, stance on the wars and etc.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Politically, GA is somewhere between AL and NC but I can't say it's definitively more like NC. GA's immigration law might not be like AL's but they have one; NC doesn't. NC held off as long as it could in putting a gay marriage amendment to a vote while GA did it when it was the "in" thing to do a few years ago. GA doesn't even fund MARTA while NC does indeed help fund mass transit in NC. As a former NC resident and a current GA resident, the differences in the politics of both states are somewhat obvious to me. The disadvantage GA has is that Atlanta is truly the only center left/progressive area in the state, while in NC, that's dispersed among a handful of metros.
Not really Metro Atlanta makes about 60% of the state pop, Which is like NC's 3 largest CSAs combined.
I believe a lot of the overly conservative stuff happen because the rise the tea party which cause the right to be more active in politics, in which the right wing politic went happy hour. Some of this is stuff likely to be repelled
I would say NC is a tiny bit more liberial but GA is closer to NC than AL. The 2008 election pretty much sums it up. Obama barely won NC, McCain won GA less than 5%. McCain won AL by 21%.
Alabama 38.74% - 60.32%
vs.
Georgia 46.99% - 52.20%
North Carolina 49.69% - 49.36%
And Augusta is strongly progressive too. So progressiveness is spread across multiple metros in GA, as it is in NC.
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