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so limited to DT are the jobs or incomes that different? A serious question as incomes in the DT of Philly are actually very high even on SF or Bay standards. Philly also has the concentration of past graduate degree earners of any DT in the country. Also the highest concentration of Drs and Lawyers of any DT believe it or not. I feel like half of my street is Drs that walk to Jefferson hospital yet can have rowhouse with 2,000+ sq feet.
To Oys comments Philly actually added more residents DT then did SF over the last 10 years, there was a census report on that. Philly was #2 and believe SF was number 3 (or maybe were 3 and 4 as NYC and Chicago may have both added more and DC and Boston were right afer Philly and SF I believe and all added more then Seattle in the DT which would surprise many am sure) they were very close but again is so similar its not dramatic either way. Also that was from 2000-2010 so maybe that dynamic has changed but DT philly has sped up not slowed down and believe the dynamic is similar for SF.
On income etc Society Hill has almost identical mean and median incomes when compared to Bay Bay in Boston as an example but maybe they are higher in SF but there is no lacking of very high wage earners in Philly (DT) despite the reputation. Again moving further the incomes drop but not DT which is the criteria here.
I am pretty sure even with real data you wont believe how close they are. I just think you don't realize how similar they are and probably have little experience outside of few nights in the CBD as you believe SF is a hallowed place and is fine as you love it. I think SF is a great city and just find the DTs to be far more similar on these criteria then you do. Retail is the only difference significantl;y in SF's favor. Nightlife would be pretty significantly in Philly's favor these days.
If he's going to use COL as a factor than incomes are the flip side. I dont know if they are higher in downtown proper, but the evidence would point to that. I would imagine there are more wealthy or superwealthy that own property in DTSF than CC. We know the property values are higher.
You cant separate downtown from the rest of the citys desireability, its the same
That's what the entire thread is about. Downtown. If they can't be separated and COL is directly linked to desirability, why are you and other SF posters constantly discussing cost of real estate? Per OyCrumber's post, why not argue on the criteria?
Of course, but none of this matters. You are talking anecdotes, I am talking actual data.
It doesn't matter what you or I think of Zurich vs. Lima, it matters what the world, overall, thinks. Clearly Zurich is viewed as a much more desirable place to live.
I personally think Zurich is boring, the Swiss are somewhat annoying with all their rules, and would never live there. But that's entirely irrelevant.
No, you are talking about COL. You have not proven the overly simplistic argument of COL and its relationship to desirability. Certainly not under the discussion of "better downtown".
That's what the entire thread is about. Downtown. If they can't be separated and COL is directly linked to desirability, why are you and other SF posters constantly discussing cost of real estate? Per OyCrumber's post, why not argue on the criteria?
Im not. Im only answering why it is a factor.
Low cost works in Phillys favor, yeah its great for middle incomes.
High cost shows that SF is more desireable on a supply/demand, but it forces middle incomes out.
You cant separate downtown from the rest of the citys desireability, its the same
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318
If he's going to use COL as a factor than incomes are the flip side. I dont know if they are higher in downtown proper, but the evidence would point to that. I would imagine there are more wealthy or superwealthy that own property in DTSF than CC. We know the property values are higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318
Im not. Im only answering why it is a factor.
Low cost works in Phillys favor, yeah its great for middle incomes.
High cost shows that SF is more desireable on a supply/demand, but it forces middle incomes out.
The criteria is fine, Ive already done that.
You can absolutely separate Downtown from the rest of the city. Center City and the surrounding neighborhoods are obviously very desirable. Obviously some other parts of Philadelphia - like North Philadelphia - are not.
If you actually took the time to look at numbers and speak in facts, instead of wildly pulling things out of your ass, maybe people would argue with you less.
Center City, Philadelphia household incomes are now over $100,000. In fact, there may be neighborhoods in Center City, Philadelphia which are now wealthier than neighborhoods in Downtown San Francisco.
Center City household incomes now in the six figures
Quote:
The continued influx of well-heeled young professionals and suburban empty nesters has pushed household income in Center City and many of its adjacent neighborhoods into six-figure territory.
An analysis of census data by Lauren Gilchrist, director of research for JLL in Philadelphia, puts Center City's average household income at $107,000, with some areas - including Society Hill, the waterfront, Rittenhouse Square, and Old City - much higher.
Average household income in Society Hill is the highest at $156,630, followed by the waterfront area and Old City, Gilchrist said.
Although the Rittenhouse area and its high-rise condos tend to be the focus of the residential market, household income there is in fourth place in Center City, with $115,638, Gilchrist said.
Those figures include luxury high-rise condos, which accounted for 104 $1 million-plus sales in all of 2014, said Kevin Gillen, chief economist of Meyers Research and senior research fellow at Drexel's Lindy Institute for Urban Innovation.
"Rising house prices do not cause household incomes to rise," he said. "Rather, the influx of relatively higher-income households into these neighborhoods has bid up house prices."
^^$156K household income is pretty substantial. That is higher than anything I found in what could reasonably be considered Downtown San Francisco. The highest I found was $143K. What's shocking is how low household income numbers get in and around the Tenderloin. They drop down to $14K. That's obviously well below poverty, especially for an expensive city like San Francisco. Philadelphia has nothing that low in or around Center City. I believe the lowest in Center City is ~$70K. Now, obviously San Fran has some very high income neighborhoods outside of Downtown... however, comparing Downtowns, I think Center City and San Francisco are very comparable. I really don't think you're very familiar with Center City, Philadelphia at all. It's definitely a wealthy area... it's not "middle income" at all. It's definitely upper-middle to upper class.
Philadelphia shatters records for million-dollar home sales
Quote:
A Drexel University report released Tuesday shows that this summer was the best quarter for Philadelphia real estate market since before the Great Recession.
Where growth has really exploded, though, is in the sale of homes that cost a million dollars or more.
"Sales at the very high end of the market shattered their all-time record – and by a significant margin," wrote researcher Kevin Gillen in his report for the Lindy Institute of Urban Innovation.
Thirty-four homes sold for a million bucks or more in the months of July, August and September. That number sails past the previous record of 25 million-dollar home sales set in 2008.
^^Many wealthy people are moving to Philadelphia, particularly into Center City. That's why we're seeing a ton of luxury, multi-million dollar towhomes/rowhomes and condos being built.
SF wages need to be high because COL is through the roof.
Indeed. Now, for the uber-wealthy (e.g., the 1%) I think that's where San Francisco is definitely more of a hub than Philadelphia, but for upper middle-class, Center City absolutely has one of the robust urban populations in the US.
Indeed. Now, for the uber-wealthy (e.g., the 1%) I think that's where San Francisco is definitely more of a hub than Philadelphia, but for upper middle-class, Center City absolutely has one of the robust urban populations in the US.
Yeah, I mean they're close, but San Francisco is obviously higher. This is older of course, but in 2012 it was about 110K millionaires in Philadelphia area, and 148K millionaires in San Francisco area.
Yeah, I mean they're close, but San Francisco is obviously higher. This is older of course, but in 2012 it was about 110K millionaires in Philadelphia area, and 148K millionaires in San Francisco area.
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