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I was just looking at the housing right on the beach in SF. Got to tell you its not great.
For east coasters it would be similar to housing in a town like North Wildwood NJ. 1-2 story older basic seaside abodes. But right on the beach. North Wildwood had the sense to build hotels/condos on the beach to take advantage of the ocean views, puts the housing a couple blocks away from the beach.
Cape May, Stone Harbor,Avalon etc etc the housing stock blows the headlights off of SF oceanfront housing from what I have seen.
As far as the close-in downtown neighborhoods? Much prefer the built enviornment of Center City as opposed to downtown SF. I dont think its a coincidence that arguably the most human scale section of downtown SF seems to be a mini west coast version of Center City Philadelphia. Do the streets + name sound familiar ? Washington Square, Chestnut Street,Lombard Street,Pine Street,Sansom Street,Filbert Street, Market Street. i will give SF credit at least they added a "Way" to Broad Street.
You did good SF if you were going to copy a street grid and design pattern then Center City Philadlephia is probably the best the US has to offer.
These photos imo kind of reflect the notion that high cost of living/ higher real estate values doesnt always equate better. These houses are probably similar in price. Which one would you prefer to live in?
I was just looking at the housing right on the beach in SF. Got to tell you its not great.
For east coasters it would be similar to housing in a town like North Wildwood NJ. 1-2 story older basic seaside abodes. But right on the beach. North Wildwood had the sense to build hotels/condos on the beach to take advantage of the ocean views, puts the housing a couple blocks away from the beach.
And that's probably why its one of the "cheaper" places to buy in SF. Nobody ever claimed living by the ocean in SF is desirable, the weather generally sucks and its one of the more suburban parts of SF. So honestly what is your point really? That when you compare apple to oranges that they aren't similar lol?
Quote:
Cape May, Stone Harbor,Avalon etc etc the housing stock blows the headlights off of SF oceanfront housing from what I have seen.
Cool, again you're not comparing anything remotely similar. Anyone buying a house in the Outer Sunset or Richmond by the ocean isn't buying it for a weekend getaway.
What a sad and desperate attempt to discredit SF on a thread about downtown's lol. You're getting desperate and reaching, so C-D Philly of you...
So honestly what is your point really? That when you compare apple to oranges that they aren't similar lol?
What a sad and desperate attempt to discredit SF on a thread about downtown's lol. You're getting desperate and reaching, so C-D Philly of you...
Ocean front vs ocean front ? Apples to oranges?
Sad and desperate attempt to discredit SF? Preposterous. I was merely pointing out that SF's high cost of living does not necessarily make it more desirable.
SF's High Cost of Living is the result of 2 main factors.
1. Land restraint. The penisula is comparitively small and 1/2 of the penisula is unlivable land. You could say supply and demand I suppose but its really the "supply" or lackthereof that creates SF high COL.
2.Booming Tech Industry.
I'll give SF credit for capitalizing on their area. They did a great job over the decades building that city. Wisely choosing the urban footprint of the great old east coast cities.
You can absolutely separate Downtown from the rest of the city. Center City and the surrounding neighborhoods are obviously very desirable. Obviously some other parts of Philadelphia - like North Philadelphia - are not.
If you actually took the time to look at numbers and speak in facts, instead of wildly pulling things out of your ass, maybe people would argue with you less.
Center City, Philadelphia household incomes are now over $100,000. In fact, there may be neighborhoods in Center City, Philadelphia which are now wealthier than neighborhoods in Downtown San Francisco.
Center City household incomes now in the six figures
^^$156K household income is pretty substantial. That is higher than anything I found in what could reasonably be considered Downtown San Francisco. The highest I found was $143K. What's shocking is how low household income numbers get in and around the Tenderloin. They drop down to $14K. That's obviously well below poverty, especially for an expensive city like San Francisco. Philadelphia has nothing that low in or around Center City. I believe the lowest in Center City is ~$70K. Now, obviously San Fran has some very high income neighborhoods outside of Downtown... however, comparing Downtowns, I think Center City and San Francisco are very comparable. I really don't think you're very familiar with Center City, Philadelphia at all. It's definitely a wealthy area... it's not "middle income" at all. It's definitely upper-middle to upper class.
Philadelphia shatters records for million-dollar home sales
^^Many wealthy people are moving to Philadelphia, particularly into Center City. That's why we're seeing a ton of luxury, multi-million dollar towhomes/rowhomes and condos being built.
Where Philly is substantially cheaper than SF is in the rental market.
Sad and desperate attempt to discredit SF? Preposterous. I was merely pointing out that SF's high cost of living does not necessarily make it more desirable.
SF's High Cost of Living is the result of 2 main factors.
1. Land restraint. The penisula is comparitively small and 1/2 of the penisula is unlivable land. You could say supply and demand I suppose but its really the "supply" or lackthereof that creates SF high COL.
2.Booming Tech Industry.
I'll give SF credit for capitalizing on their area. They did a great job over the decades building that city. Wisely choosing the urban footprint of the great old east coast cities.
No it's more weekend beach tourist town versus outer city neighborhood. No one is spending weekends in the Outer Sunset/Richmond for the beach like they are the Jersey Shore. Do you really not understand that?
I agree a high COL doesn't automatically mean a place is more desirable as there are other factors in play, but they just tend to be which is the case with SF vs Philly.
No it's more weekend beach tourist town versus outer city neighborhood. No one is spending weekends in the Outer Sunset/Richmond for the beach like they are the Jersey Shore. Do you really not understand that?
I agree a high COL doesn't automatically mean a place is more desirable as there are other factors in play, but they just tend to be which is the case with SF vs Philly.
Also this is purely about DTs of which beachfront outer Richmond is not much less Avalon NJ
Real Estate is much higher in the bay overall, mostly compared to anywhere in the US
Though I still personally contend these two DTs actually compare very well, Philly may actually even have higher incomes DT relative to SF, not the city overall though but again Philly does not have any shortage of high earners in the city, the most glaring difference is the number of low income earners in Philly compared to SF
High COL is sort of function of factors one of which being real estate value of which is s demand based aspect. Does that make it better probably not as is subjective. It does typically equate to demand though of which SF prices are generating higher demand and price points no doubt
Yea, Jersey Shore certainly isn't part of downtown whatsoever. Not sure why there's a point in bringing that up.
Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you spent some time in Center City?
Oh for sure. Its been a while it was 2008. Ive got family in Philly and in suburban NJ. Spent time in CC and went to an Eagles/Redskins game....
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