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I agree 100%. Even the supposedly suburban parts of Queens are more urban than most sunbelt city neighborhoods.
I work in Springfield Gardens, Queens which is supposedly "suburban", but there are 24 hour hood delis everywhere, there's heavy public transportation usage, small apartment buildings everywhere, lots of pedestrian activity, etc.
Interesting. I do admit that Chicago overall is more urban than I previously thought.
But I don't think a block "looking" more urban (brick rowhomes instead of vinyl multifamily houses) actually makes it more urban.
And I would argue that the large Boulevards in Queens aide in urbanity in a way, since they allow more buses. And for Philly, there's a lot of blight in some areas which I think it loses points for. More blight=lower density, and less pedestrian activity.
But Philly is the 2nd most urban place in the country I've been to so far that's not in NY/NJ. I haven't been to SF as an adult yet, I wonder how it compares.
Springfield Gardens is considered surburban like most SouthEast Queens because of the front lawn, backyard and car access the area offers. Springfield Gardens has poor access to the subway, and is not as crowded as a typical street in parts of the Bronx, Brooklyn and Manhattan.
Someone who spends time in Flushing would laugh at the idea that Springfield Garden is “urban”.
Does Springfield Gardens even have alternate side parking like true NYC urban areas?
I don't even find Queens to be that autocentric, I'm in Southeast Queens a lot (which is one of the more autocentric parts of the borough) and many people do not own cars. They even have accordion buses going through SE Queens now.
And the neighborhoods with subway access are generally not autocentric at all. I would argue that most, if not all of the neighborhoods along the 7 train are extremely urban. Does Philly have any residential neighborhoods as intense as Jackson Heights and Elmhurst?
Jackson Heights and Elmhurst are true urban communities. Which is why I’m often confused why you to sell Southeast Queens as urban.
Being that my family is Caribbean. Many Caribbean people moved to southeast for the simple fact that they were away from true urban areas like Crown Heights and Flatbush!
Philly streets are narrow to me. Hard to drive and park. Drove a U Haul there once and it was the worst experience ever!
Yeah so I don't think those tiny streets really add to the areas's urbanity. I think a good situation is Bushwick where there aren't too many wide streets, but the streets are never uselessly narrow like in Philly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynJo
Coney Island is not impressive it’s an area that’s filled with low income housing and Housing projects and one of the poorest communities in NYC. That’s one of the biggest reasons why Coney Island is as urban as it is.
Sea Gate next door to Coney is an entire different ball game
It's still a very bustling area far from Manhattan. Bensonhurst is pretty urban too and it's not ghetto, if you want a better example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynJo
Springfield Gardens is considered surburban like most SouthEast Queens because of the front lawn, backyard and car access the area offers. Springfield Gardens has poor access to the subway, and is not as crowded as a typical street in parts of the Bronx, Brooklyn and Manhattan.
Someone who spends time in Flushing would laugh at the idea that Springfield Garden is “urban”.
Does Springfield Gardens even have alternate side parking like true NYC urban areas?
Most US cities have either poor subway service or no subway service, so that's unfair to say SG is suburban because of that. It does have pretty high public transit use for US standards, though. It's very common for people in that general area to not drive, which is not the case in most suburban places.
Obviously SE Queens is not as urban as Manhattan or most of Brooklyn or The Bronx, but it is urban for US standards. I've been all over New Orleans and Springfield Gardens is more urban than the vast majority of that city.
Manhattan is literally as urban as it gets in the US, you cannot use it as the standard of what's urban. Free standing single family houses are by far the most common type of urban housing throughout the US, and SG has a lot of semidetached an multifamily anyway. Nobody who's seeking an actual suburban area would choose Springfield Gardens or Queens Village. Another difference is the commercial strips. I noticed today that as soon as you cross Hook Creek Blvd (on Merrick Rd/Blvd), there's an immediate increase in pedestrian activity, and an immediate decrease in businesses with parking lots. Just a little bit further past Laurelton Parkway, this becomes much more pronounced and it's clearly not a suburban layout anymore.
Also, I spend a lot of time in Brooklyn and Manhattan, as well as actual suburban places. I don't think that Springfield Gardens is the suburbs just because it's not as urban as the most urban places in the entire country. There are different tiers of urbanity and SG is at the lower end of what I'd consider urban, however it's still urban by most metrics. There's nothing laughable about considering a densely populated, pedestrian friendly area with houses/apartment houses on tiny lot sizes urban.
Queens as a whole isn't very autocentric. Queens even in its more suburban parts that are served just by buses and commuter rail, which is maybe half the borough by area (outside of airports and parks) though not population, aren't all that autocentric.
I think one reason Queens is perceived as autocentric is because more Moses parkways and expressways criss-cross it than any other New York City borough, with the Bronx running a not-all-that-close second:
Grand Central Parkway
Interboro Parkway (now Jackie Robinson Parkway)
Long Island Expressway
Cross Island Parkway
Belt Parkway (part)
Clearview Expressway
Brooklyn-Queens Expressway (part)
Van Wyck Expressway
Throgs Neck Expressway (part)
Whitestone Expressway
I think I've left out one or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynJo
Jackson Heights and Elmhurst are true urban communities. Which is why I’m often confused why you to sell Southeast Queens as urban.
Being that my family is Caribbean. Many Caribbean people moved to southeast for the simple fact that they were away from true urban areas like Crown Heights and Flatbush!
The fellow I'm dating grew up in southeast Queens.
His family hails from Trinidad and Tobago, where his father was a well-known football (soccer) player.
He has shown me images of the neighborhood where he grew up. The houses there are less closely spaced than they are in many other parts of Queens.
I think one reason Queens is perceived as autocentric is because more Moses parkways and expressways criss-cross it than any other New York City borough, with the Bronx running a not-all-that-close second:
Grand Central Parkway
Interboro Parkway (now Jackie Robinson Parkway)
Long Island Expressway
Cross Island Parkway
Belt Parkway (part)
Clearview Expressway
Brooklyn-Queens Expressway (part)
Van Wyck Expressway
Throgs Neck Expressway (part)
Whitestone Expressway
I think I've left out one or two.
The fellow I'm dating grew up in southeast Queens.
His family hails from Trinidad and Tobago, where his father was a well-known football (soccer) player.
He has shown me images of the neighborhood where he grew up. The houses there are less closely spaced than they are in many other parts of Queens.
Well depending on what you consider the boundaries of Southeast Queens to be, there are also plenty of blocks like this.
Yeah so I don't think those tiny streets really add to the areas's urbanity. I think a good situation is Bushwick where there aren't too many wide streets, but the streets are never uselessly narrow like in Philly.
I love those tiny streets! They are the best to walk through. I don’t think they’re useless at all! That’s human-scale at its best. I wish we had more in NY like that.
I love those tiny streets! They are the best to walk through. I don’t think they’re useless at all! That’s human-scale at its best. I wish we had more in NY like that.
Yep, Philly's narrow streets are an incredible asset for walkability and encouraging positive and serendipitous human interaction. It's arguably the most human-scaled large city in the country in that regard.
That said, there are many Philly neighborhoods that could use much more of a (re)injection of mixed-use commercial vitality, to make them more livable and well-rounded, much like those in Queens, but I think this is happening in due time as it continues on its course of revitalization.
Yeah so I don't think those tiny streets really add to the areas's urbanity. I think a good situation is Bushwick where there aren't too many wide streets, but the streets are never uselessly narrow like in Philly.
It's still a very bustling area far from Manhattan. Bensonhurst is pretty urban too and it's not ghetto, if you want a better example.
Most US cities have either poor subway service or no subway service, so that's unfair to say SG is suburban because of that. It does have pretty high public transit use for US standards, though. It's very common for people in that general area to not drive, which is not the case in most suburban places.
Obviously SE Queens is not as urban as Manhattan or most of Brooklyn or The Bronx, but it is urban for US standards. I've been all over New Orleans and Springfield Gardens is more urban than the vast majority of that city.
Manhattan is literally as urban as it gets in the US, you cannot use it as the standard of what's urban. Free standing single family houses are by far the most common type of urban housing throughout the US, and SG has a lot of semidetached an multifamily anyway. Nobody who's seeking an actual suburban area would choose Springfield Gardens or Queens Village. Another difference is the commercial strips. I noticed today that as soon as you cross Hook Creek Blvd (on Merrick Rd/Blvd), there's an immediate increase in pedestrian activity, and an immediate decrease in businesses with parking lots. Just a little bit further past Laurelton Parkway, this becomes much more pronounced and it's clearly not a suburban layout anymore.
Also, I spend a lot of time in Brooklyn and Manhattan, as well as actual suburban places. I don't think that Springfield Gardens is the suburbs just because it's not as urban as the most urban places in the entire country. There are different tiers of urbanity and SG is at the lower end of what I'd consider urban, however it's still urban by most metrics. There's nothing laughable about considering a densely populated, pedestrian friendly area with houses/apartment houses on tiny lot sizes urban.
1.) True
2.) Coney Island is your typically bustling low income area but it’s not realistically bustling. Other than the Coney Island amusement park in the summer I don’t think most people in NYC even know Coney (aka the area) exist or ever need anything from there! But I don’t think there is no low income area in nyc that isn’t technically bustling.
3.) You need to understand that the Queens suburb talk is based off comparing many of the boroughs areas to NYC areas not other parts of the country. Compared to your typical urban community in NYC, big chunks of Queens would be viewed as close to suburban because of many factors.
- poor subway access
- people in many parts having to use the Long Island Rail Road
- Long Island Railroad making stops at each neighborhood which are often crowded in the rush hours.
- no alternate side parking which means 24 hour parking access on city streets
- no crowds which is what NYC is typically stereotyped as
- barely any buildings in Northeast and Southeast Queens. Surprisingly most of the buildings in Queens are
Located in true urban Queens areas like Elmhurst, Flushing and Jackson Heights
- 90% of land being dominated by houses with backyards and front lawns (the non urban areas of Queens we are speaking about)
I don’t think it’s a mistake, confusion or over exaggeration when people call certain parts of Queens the boondocks because that’s exactly how many of the communities in Queens feel.
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