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Austin and San Antonio aren't connected as cities at all in my opinion. However, Hays County (Austin MSA) and Comal County (SA MSA) are very connected. San Marcos and New Braunfels are only 15 mins from each other whereas they are 30+traffic to Austin/San Antonio.
I don't see the single CSA happening. The issue is that Austin doesn't have that many jobs on the south side, so there isn't too many people that are going to commute in from Comal County, even if costs are cheaper there. Maybe if Tesla gets really big that could change. I think a CSA with Austin/Killeen/Temple is more likely, as those areas are better positioned for commuting into North Austin's tech economy. Particularly with the stuff getting built in places like Hutto and Taylor.
Right now San Marcos is a college town fairly independent from Austin and NB is a retirement community fairly independent from SA.
Economically not really, but the 2nd city with the highest net migration to San Antonio was Austin (after Houston)
Inbound to Austin is Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Los Angeles, NYC, Chicago, SF in that order. There's a lot of back and forth migration between the two cities, to the point where they even feel connected just off of mutual connections with people.
IMO, CSA will happen in the next 10-15 years. There's a huge residential development that just broke ground on the north side of NB that will close the last empty gap of I-35 even more. Right now it's maybe 4-5 miles of empty land. Every city between SA and Austin is growing at a rapid clip. It's hard to imagine Austin sprawling further north when it already is sprawled out super far, and places like Kyle, San Marcos, and New Braunfels are way more desirable than the Killeen/Temple area.
On the topic though, I think San Antonio feels more like a peer to CLT than Austin does. It's close, but besides the crazy amount of skyscrapers going up downtown, Austin still doesn't feel like a "big city" to me. San Antonio doesn't really have the skyscrapers but the infrastructure of the metro area makes it feel huge.
While I can’t say I fully endorse going too far down the urbanized area nuances, I’d just like to point out that Orlando-Kissimmee UA’s larger population is made in about 35% less area. But also it somehow separates out Deltona’s 200,000 because of a lake (despite Lake Monroe being developed the 7 miles it takes to get from Deltona to Sanford).And that’s without touching Polk or Lake County. The core of Orlando is more populated, and it’s reaches go further out. It’s a different tier.
Edit: Wait, is Statesville in Charlotte’s UA? There is a reason I don’t like going down the Urbanized area route.
An extra 200K isn't exactly a tier-jumping amount of people so Deltona can be included with Orlando/Kissimmee and it not change anything. Their urbanized area and MSA populations are very close and yes, Orlando gets there with less land due to the region's geographical constraints I mentioned earlier. Of course things diverge when using CSA but in Orlando's case, you're no longer talking about just Orlando (the Lakeland and Deltona/Daytona Beach MSAs have similar populations as the Winston-Salem and Greensboro MSAs).
Greater Charlotte is just very sprawly when compared to a place like Orlando. Even accounting for the geography. Salisbury and Statesville are like 80 miles from Rock Hill and feel it and more. Deltona is maybe 50 miles to Kissimmee and feels built-out nearly the whole way. So yes, maybe if you rejigger things just so, draw a bigger circle around Charlotte and make a tighter one around Orlando, you can claim they are close to one another. But they certainly don’t feel the same (to me).
Again, if you added York and Union populations to Mecklenburg, you’d begin approximating Orlando’s density w/o even accounting for Kissimmee, Deltona, Winter Haven, etc. I’m also unsure if you are saying Guilford to Charlotte is comparable to Volusia County to Orlando. I’m hopeful that isn’t the case.
Greater Charlotte is just very sprawly when compared to a place like Orlando. Even accounting for the geography. Salisbury and Statesville are like 80 miles from Rock Hill and feel it and more. Deltona is maybe 50 miles to Kissimmee and feels built-out nearly the whole way. So yes, maybe if you rejigger things just so, draw a bigger circle around Charlotte and make a tighter one around Orlando, you can claim they are close to one another. But they certainly don’t feel the same (to me).
Again, if you added York and Union populations to Mecklenburg, you’d begin approximating Orlando’s density w/o even accounting for Kissimmee, Deltona, Winter Haven, etc. I’m also unsure if you are saying Guilford to Charlotte is comparable to Volusia County to Orlando. I’m hopeful that isn’t the case.
No he isn't saying that but you are exaggerating the feel by alot. There is continuos buildup from Salisbury and Statesville all the way to Rock Hill and Gastonia. All of these places being within 30 minutes of Charlotte. Honestly Orlando feels just as sprawly and there is no real difference in feel.
No he isn't saying that but you are exaggerating the feel by alot. There is continuos buildup from Salisbury and Statesville all the way to Rock Hill and Gastonia. All of these places being within 30 minutes of Charlotte. Honestly Orlando feels just as sprawly and there is no real difference in feel.
If you think Statesville and Salisbury are to Charlotte as Kissimmee is to Orlando, that’s fine. I disagree.
I’ll agree that Orlando is sprawly. Like a true Sun Belt metro. Lakeland, Daytona, and the Villages are a ways away. But even then, the two aren’t the same. Using Mutiny’s UA numbers, Orlando-Kissimmee is roughly the same in area as Charlotte’s (~750 sq miles). But Orlando-Kissimmee is 40% more populated. Mutiny was adding 400 square miles to try and keep up. But there’s more people in a similar situation in Central Florida. And obviously the unspoken part of all this is there is infrastructure in place for 60+ million annual visitors on top of the larger population.
If you think Statesville and Salisbury are to Charlotte as Kissimmee is to Orlando, that’s fine. I disagree.
I’ll agree that Orlando is sprawly. Like a true Sun Belt metro. Lakeland, Daytona, and the Villages are a ways away. But even then, the two aren’t the same. Using Mutiny’s UA numbers, Orlando-Kissimmee is roughly the same in area as Charlotte’s (~750 sq miles). But Orlando-Kissimmee is 40% more populated. Mutiny was adding 400 square miles to try and keep up. But there’s more people in a similar situation in Central Florida. And obviously the unspoken part of all this is there is infrastructure in place for 60+ million annual visitors on top of the larger population.
Yes I understand what you are saying but it's all trivial. It's like saying Atlanta and Miami are not peers because of a density difference and a difference of 200,000 people. It's all semantics. Orlando and Charlotte are peers and honestly Charlotte may be a little higher on the totem pole in the same tier...
But Orlando-Kissimmee is 40% more populated. Mutiny was adding 400 square miles to try and keep up.
I did no such thing. I always add the contiguous UAs of Concord, Gastonia, and Rock Hill to Charlotte's regardless because of the UA delineation criteria that doesn't allow for mergers when two independent UAs grow into each other. That's also why I added Kissimmee, which is its own separate UA, to Orlando. But we can just keep it a buck and use the UAs of Charlotte and Orlando alone:
Charlotte is by all accounts more sprawled, but we can agree to disagree about them not belonging in the same tier. And we never ever got to the difference in their metropolitan GDP or airport statistics.
I did no such thing. I always add the contiguous UAs of Concord, Gastonia, and Rock Hill to Charlotte's regardless because of the UA delineation criteria that doesn't allow for mergers when two independent UAs grow into each other. That's also why I added Kissimmee, which is its own separate UA, to Orlando. But we can just keep it a buck and use the UAs of Charlotte and Orlando alone:
Charlotte is by all accounts more sprawled, but we can agree to disagree about them not belonging in the same tier. And we never ever got to the difference in their metropolitan GDP or airport statistics.
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