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You don't have an opinion, or you don't know what you're talking about?
Although it's a very vague question, and it's all your opinion, but most of these cities over Duluth, MN is crazy to me. Yes, I've been to most of these cities. And yes, they all have great things to offer. But Duluth is great. Such a great place. I am bias, I'll admit, but if you ever get the chance to check it out, please do. The city will not let you down.
Well Duluth is quite a bit away from me. I would have to live within maybe 2-3 hours to spend a weekend there. I just am biased against smaller cities personally. Though I do hear good things about Duluth and it probably punches above its weight despite its modest size.
Duluth as a city really isn't that spectacular. It's unique by Midwestern standards with its steep, San Francisco-like hillside setting, but for an urbanophile it isn't much to write home about. Downtown is very upscale and compact, but a lot of the city is still struggling from population and industry loss.
However, Duluth has done a fantastic job emphasizing the places where it shines: history and nature. The lakefront, Canal Park/Park Point, Skyline Parkway, and the rest of the municipal park system is top-notch very much a hidden gem for people outside of Minnesota/Western Wisconsin. It has an impressive collection of museums and cultural attractions for a city of its size. Often visitors will make Duluth their home base for a North Shore vacation. I've been all over the country and have seen a lot of "touristy" cities, and Duluth is definitely one of the more highbrow ones for that sort of thing in the summer/fall months.
I'd say Kansas City does belong right where you said it should go, given your preferences. But you should know that if you like barbecue, it's the only one of the Midwestern cities we're discussing here that ranks among the country's barbecue capitals. (St. Louis is trying to steal KC's thunder, but as long as St. Louis-style ribs are grilled rather than slow-smoked, that city is no more than a mere pretender - and I get highly annoyed when I walk into East Coast Q joints that tout their St. Louis-style ribs.)
If you're going to keep doing this BBQ snob thing I'd suggest you actually learn a thing or two about BBQ first... St. Louis is absolutely a BBQ capital. The city has really, really upped its game in the last 20 or so years and the countless best bbq restaurants lists touting St. Louis joints have taken notice, but they all know less than you huh? Except, you don't even really know what "St. Louis style ribs" are, despite getting so upset about seeing it everywhere... I'll help, it's how the ribs are cut:
"St. Louis-style spare ribs are cut in a particular way with the sternum bone, cartilage and rib tips removed so that a well-formed, rectangular-shaped rack is created for presentation. This cut of ribs, formalized by the USDA as "Pork Ribs, St. Louis Style," allegedly originated with numerous meat-packing plants located in the region in the mid 20th century and put into the policy by a diehard fan of the St. Louis Cardinals baseball team.[3] St. Louis style ribs are often a class entry in barbecue competitions."
There, that's it... It has nothing to do with the occasional grilling quirk in St. Louis. But that's just another random thing that adds to the variety of the St. Louis BBQ scene. St. Louis sits kinda between KC and Memphis and has loads of BBQ joints in both styles. The fact that you keep repeating posts like yours where you show your ignorance of basic BBQ concepts (do you know what baby back ribs are? or do you not care and just get super annoyed by St. Louis style because it has St. Louis in the name and you're from KC? ) and of the St. Louis BBQ scene ("but as long as St. Louis-style ribs are grilled rather than slow-smoked, that city is no more than a mere pretender" Are you for real here? Tell me the St. Louis BBQ places you've been to; seriously, list them out, because this quote is full of ignorance) tells me you just have a complex on this that is detached from reality.
If you're going to keep doing this BBQ snob thing I'd suggest you actually learn a thing or two about BBQ first... St. Louis is absolutely a BBQ capital. The city has really, really upped its game in the last 20 or so years and the countless best bbq restaurants lists touting St. Louis joints have taken notice, but they all know less than you huh? Except, you don't even really know what "St. Louis style ribs" are, despite getting so upset about seeing it everywhere... I'll help, it's how the ribs are cut:
"St. Louis-style spare ribs are cut in a particular way with the sternum bone, cartilage and rib tips removed so that a well-formed, rectangular-shaped rack is created for presentation. This cut of ribs, formalized by the USDA as "Pork Ribs, St. Louis Style," allegedly originated with numerous meat-packing plants located in the region in the mid 20th century and put into the policy by a diehard fan of the St. Louis Cardinals baseball team.[3] St. Louis style ribs are often a class entry in barbecue competitions."
There, that's it... It has nothing to do with the occasional grilling quirk in St. Louis. But that's just another random thing that adds to the variety of the St. Louis BBQ scene. St. Louis sits kinda between KC and Memphis and has loads of BBQ joints in both styles. The fact that you keep repeating posts like yours where you show your ignorance of basic BBQ concepts (do you know what baby back ribs are? or do you not care and just get super annoyed by St. Louis style because it has St. Louis in the name and you're from KC? ) and of the St. Louis BBQ scene ("but as long as St. Louis-style ribs are grilled rather than slow-smoked, that city is no more than a mere pretender" Are you for real here? Tell me the St. Louis BBQ places you've been to; seriously, list them out, because this quote is full of ignorance) tells me you just have a complex on this that is detached from reality.
So I'm a snob here.
I am aware that St. Louis ribs are so called because they are cut so they form an even rectangular slab. I'd understood (from reading, and from the places I've eaten at up this way that serve them) that that last was done so they would cook evenly on a grill - and I do consider grilling something other than barbecuing, where the smoke cooks the meat as much as the heat does. If I'm wrong about the grilling vs. slow-smoking part, I apologize, but I do believe that barbecuing means "low and slow", and grilling is neither. You can produce tasty grilled ribs - I made many myself before I got an offset smoker - but I don't consider that barbecue. And I do see places, especially here on the East Coast, that tout "St.Louis-style ribs" as a barbecue style rather than a cut.
I've heard from others that St. Louis has acquired a number of very good Q joints in recent years - I've yet to try one because my travels don't take me there since my uncle and aunt who lived in Edwardsville, Ill., passed from the scene - but when I went to visit the place in the 1970 and 1980s, nobody I knew there spoke of St. Louis Q the way they spoke of Kansas City Q even back then. So forgive me if I still consider the city a Johnny-come-lately to the world of Q capitals, for from what I can tell, it is, and it's still not mentioned in the same breath as the cities 200 miles to its south or 250 miles to its west are. (And KC and Memphis Q are kissing cousins whereas Carolina and Texas Q are noticeably different from both.)
I do know what baby back ribs are as well - they're shorter, thicker and meatier than regular spareribs. They're also quite popular at many restaurants that don't specialize in barbecue. You can barbecue them (and I have done so), but most of the Q joints I've been to don't serve them.
I also don't consider gas grills proper barbecue equipment. They're great for cooking steaks and burgers because they can produce high heat that sears the meat and seals in the juices, but while you can set them up for slow-smoking, they don't produce the same flavor that actually burning charcoal or wood does.
Have spent some time in Minneapolis/St. Paul, but not enough to fairly rank it. It might be the winner otherwise. Of the rest, here’s the ranking for those I’ve been to:
Kansas City
Cincinnati
Columbus
Indianapolis
Springfield, IL
St. Louis
Des Moines
Lincoln
Madison
Chose KC because it has MLB/NFL franchises, an excellent art museum, strong ancillary attractions otherwise (WWI Museum, Negro League Museum, Kemper Art Museum, Steamship Arabia Museum), world class BBQ, okay public transportation, and a bonus of Independence, MO as a close by day trip.
Cincinnati has an excellent art museum, MLB/NFL franchises, okay public transportation, and Cincinnati chili. Its ancillary attractions (Cincinnati Zoo, Taft Museum, Union Terminal museums) aren’t bad.
Columbus has a fine (if smaller) art museum, an NHL franchise, very good capitol building, and two interesting neighborhoods in German Village and Short North. Some good restaurants also. Not a lot of public transportation, but probably not necessary.
Indianapolis has a decent art museum, NFL/NBA franchises, a nice capitol building, some good ancillary attractions (the speedway, Indiana History Museum, Eiteljorg Museum, World War Memorial and Museum). Less sold on food here. Okay public transportation. Attractions pretty spread out.
Springfield IL has an excellent capitol building (old and new), lots of great Lincoln oriented attractions, and a couple excellent historic houses to tour. Also home to the horseshoe sandwich. Not much public transportation, but quite walkable.
St. Louis has an okay art museum, MLB/NHL franchises, several decent ancillary attractions (Cathedral-Basilica, a few historic houses, Gateway Arch, history museums, Old Courthouse). Nice neighborhoods in The Hill and the area near Washington University. Attractions very spread out, public transportation doesn’t cover things all that well.
Des Moines has one of the country’s best capitol buildings and a decent history museum. Also has the state fair in season. Public transportation is spotty, art museum not that good, food nothing special.
Lincoln has an excellent capitol building and a couple modest attractions at the University of Nebraska. Public transportation spotty, food nothing special.
Madison has a good capitol building and a close-by and decent state history museum. Not much else to recommend, though.
Have spent some time in Minneapolis/St. Paul, but not enough to fairly rank it. It might be the winner otherwise. Of the rest, here’s the ranking for those I’ve been to:
Kansas City
Cincinnati
Columbus
Indianapolis
Springfield, IL
St. Louis
Des Moines
Lincoln
Madison
Chose KC because it has MLB/NFL franchises, an excellent art museum, strong ancillary attractions otherwise (WWI Museum, Negro League Museum, Kemper Art Museum, Steamship Arabia Museum), world class BBQ, okay public transportation, and a bonus of Independence, MO as a close by day trip.
Cincinnati has an excellent art museum, MLB/NFL franchises, okay public transportation, and Cincinnati chili. Its ancillary attractions (Cincinnati Zoo, Taft Museum, Union Terminal museums) aren’t bad.
Columbus has a fine (if smaller) art museum, an NHL franchise, very good capitol building, and two interesting neighborhoods in German Village and Short North. Some good restaurants also. Not a lot of public transportation, but probably not necessary.
Indianapolis has a decent art museum, NFL/NBA franchises, a nice capitol building, some good ancillary attractions (the speedway, Indiana History Museum, Eiteljorg Museum, World War Memorial and Museum). Less sold on food here. Okay public transportation. Attractions pretty spread out.
Springfield IL has an excellent capitol building (old and new), lots of great Lincoln oriented attractions, and a couple excellent historic houses to tour. Also home to the horseshoe sandwich. Not much public transportation, but quite walkable.
St. Louis has an okay art museum, MLB/NHL franchises, several decent ancillary attractions (Cathedral-Basilica, a few historic houses, Gateway Arch, history museums, Old Courthouse). Nice neighborhoods in The Hill and the area near Washington University. Attractions very spread out, public transportation doesn’t cover things all that well.
Des Moines has one of the country’s best capitol buildings and a decent history museum. Also has the state fair in season. Public transportation is spotty, art museum not that good, food nothing special.
Lincoln has an excellent capitol building and a couple modest attractions at the University of Nebraska. Public transportation spotty, food nothing special.
Madison has a good capitol building and a close-by and decent state history museum. Not much else to recommend, though.
I'm a native of the first and have been to all of the others save the last two - and I've only been through, not to, Cincy, a place I would love to visit again if only to see how they've brought Union Terminal (which I saw when traveling from DC to Chicago by train) back from the dead. IMO it's the finest Art Deco train station in the country, period, and one of the finest Art Deco buildings of any kind in the country (New York's Rockefeller Center is the best Art Deco ensemble in the country and Kansas City's Municipal Auditorium is a contender for best building, though surpassed by Cincy Union Terminal).
But: Independence "a close-by day trip"? Arrow Rock, St. Joseph, Topeka and even Omaha, Des Moines and St. Louis are day trips from Kansas City. Independence is a next-door neighbor. It used to be the seat of the county containing Kansas City's older built-up portion until the county moved the seat from the Independence court house to the one in downtown KC (the former rebuilt, and the latter built, by Missouri's only President when he ran the county).
I think I'd rank the Ohio Capitol in Columbus above the Iowa Capitol in Des Moines as the handsomest in the country. It's also one of about only ten with no dome - though it looks like the builders had meant to put one atop that cylinder in its center. I was surprised by how much fun I had in Columbus, especially the Short North - and when I went there for a weekend conference in 2009, I took one of the local buses info my downtown hotel (across from the Capitol and next to the Ohio Theater) from the airport. I'd recommend that ride to any visitor, as it takes you through a cross-section of the city's suburbs.
Given that MetroLink is the only honest-to-God light rail transit line of the bunch (Cincy and KC have streetcars serving their downtown cores and an adjacent area), I'm surprised to hear your assessment of St. Louis mass transit as missing the mark. Did you make it to Shaw's Garden on your visit? IMO there's nothing like it in any of the other cities on this liist.
I'm a native of the first and have been to all of the others save the last two - and I've only been through, not to, Cincy, a place I would love to visit again if only to see how they've brought Union Terminal (which I saw when traveling from DC to Chicago by train) back from the dead. IMO it's the finest Art Deco train station in the country, period, and one of the finest Art Deco buildings of any kind in the country (New York's Rockefeller Center is the best Art Deco ensemble in the country and Kansas City's Municipal Auditorium is a contender for best building, though surpassed by Cincy Union Terminal).
But: Independence "a close-by day trip"? Arrow Rock, St. Joseph, Topeka and even Omaha, Des Moines and St. Louis are day trips from Kansas City. Independence is a next-door neighbor. It used to be the seat of the county containing Kansas City's older built-up portion until the county moved the seat from the Independence court house to the one in downtown KC.
I think I'd rank the Ohio Capitol in Columbus above the Iowa Capitol in Des Moines as the handsomest in the country. It's also one of about only ten with no dome - though it looks like the builders had meant to put one atop that cylinder in its center. I was surprised by how much fun I had in Columbus, especially the Short North - and when I went there for a weekend conference in 2009, I took one of the local buses info my downtown hotel (across from the Capitol and next to the Ohio Theater) from the airport. I'd recommend that ride to any visitor, as it takes you through a cross-section of the city's suburbs.
Given that MetroLink is the only honest-to-God light rail transit line of the bunch (Cincy and KC have streetcars serving their downtown cores and an adjacent area), I'm surprised to hear your assessment of St. Louis mass transit as missing the mark. Did you make it to Shaw's Garden on your visit? IMO there's nothing like it in any of the other cities on this liist.
I considered Independence a close by day trip because you can take a city bus there from KC. The other cities you mentioned are day trips but not as close by.
The best capitol building I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen 37 so far) is in Harrisburg PA, hands down. Des Moines came in at number 3 for me, behind Albany and just ahead of Topeka, Jefferson City, and Baton Rouge. Columbus is indeed good, a little more spare than some, though still well worth seeing — it apparently was never going to have a dome, from what I’ve read. FWIW, the Columbus state capitol was reportedly Frank Lloyd Wright’s favorite. YMMV, of course.
St. Louis does have Metrolink, but it doesn’t go to a lot of things such as the Busch Brewery, The Hill, Scott Joplin House, the art museum, the Cathedral-Basilica, or the Botanical Garden.
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) and of the St. Louis BBQ scene ("but as long as St. Louis-style ribs are grilled rather than slow-smoked, that city is no more than a mere pretender" Are you for real here? Tell me the St. Louis BBQ places you've been to; seriously, list them out, because this quote is full of ignorance) tells me you just have a complex on this that is detached from reality.
