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Why does this feels like folks are trying to get easy wins for their hometown or cities that they love. Why it couldn't be Montreal vs. Toronto or Chicago vs. Minnesota? It seems like people on C-D use Cleveland because they know it has bad reputation across the country and it's going to have a negatively knee-jerk reaction (even though most of the US and Canadian population have never set foot in the city). It seems like some of these posts want to include Cleveland to big up their cities or cities that they love. It's bad enough that Cleveland can't boost their city on this site without folks from other cities having to remind us that we don't live in an "elite city." To the OP, don't you think Cleveland has suffered enough jokes and ridicule all over the world for five decades? Why make it six?
Why does this feels like folks are trying to get easy wins for their hometown or cities that they love. Why it couldn't be Montreal vs. Toronto or Chicago vs. Minnesota? It seems like people on C-D use Cleveland because they know it has bad reputation across the country and it's going to have a negatively knee-jerk reaction (even though most of the US and Canadian population have never set foot in the city). It seems like some of these posts want to include Cleveland to big up their cities or cities that they love. It's bad enough that Cleveland can't boost their city on this site without folks from other cities having to remind us that we don't live in an "elite city." To the OP, don't you think Cleveland has suffered enough jokes and ridicule all over the world for five decades? Why make it six?
But a few of us stuck up for Cleveland, and a couple of posters seem to be major fans.
Climate is pretty much the same. Not much difference between -5 and -9 Celsius. It’s cold in both places. And Cleveland gets that wonderful lake effect. Are we talking about the same cities here?
Avg high is Montreal is 10 degrees colder in January and it gets more snow than Cleveland, even with the Lake Effect.
Low wages in Montreal are a big problem. I've met plenty of highly educated French Canadians who come to the US for work, very few go in the other direction.
Which city is better overall (living standards, infrastructure, attractions, public transit, etc.) in your opinion?
Okay, so I'll get this part out of the way first:
Cleveland has 386K people living in 78 square miles
Montreal has 1.78 Million people living in 167 square miles
So yes, as other posters are mentioning, and someone that is a proud Clevelander growing up, the comparison is a bit... odd.
That said, take a look at some of the actual criteria (the few listed by the OP) and it's perhaps a little more interesting.
Living standards... that's something that's harder to quantify than by simply looking at just metrics like urbanity, etc. Rochester, MN frequently tops livability charts in the US. Cleveland median household income comes in at about $53K, whereas Montreal comes in at about $62K. However, the median price for a house in Montreal is $419K, and in Cleveland it is $157K. I'm not quite sure how rent compares, I'll admit, I've heard Montreal is a relative bargain for rent compared to almost anywhere else in North America though. I'd say that city to city themselves, Montreal is obviously a more desirable place to live in on the whole. Cleveland has some definite issues to be worked out. However, at the Metro level overall it's a bit fuzzier and harder to say I think. I can definitely see not a small number of people preferring the "living" aspect of Cleveland, smaller though it may be. I'll also note that I've heard about the struggles of finding work in Montreal, and to a surprising note that GDP numbers (when considering Cleveland CSA vs. Metropolitan Montreal) are surprisingly comparable.
Infrastructure... honestly that's hard to really note-again, it's one of those instances where when looking at city proper itself, Montreal has a decisive edge, but it becomes much more interesting and harder to say and begs questions about what infrastructure is being discussed when talking about the wider metropolitan areas as a whole.
Attractions... so no question Montreal is more urbane, vibrant, happening, etc. But, I think that on attractions, which as Las Vegas and Orlando have proved, doesn't necessarily correlate with urbanity, the two are more comparable overall.
Culture: I'd say that Cleveland's high culture overall can compare quite well with Montreal, in terms of institutions, etc. and some of Cleveland's better ones actually exceed the better ones in Montreal.
Sports: At least at this point I'd say Cleveland is probably a better sports city. That said, I've heard Les Habs have about as passionate a following as there is anywhere, and Montreal does have MLS as well... at very least though, apart from the fact Montreal was fortunate enough to host the Olympics a while back, I don't think there's anything huge separating the two here.
Major One of a Kind/Touristy Attractions: Cleveland has Cedar Point, Pro Football HOF and Rock and Roll HOF all within the region, along with presidential sites, Amish Country, industrial history, etc. Again-not saying Montreal isn't more urbane, etc. on other levels and might not win this on volume. But, tourist attractions and urbanity are separate things.
Public Transit: Montreal almost certainly wins this category going away-though, it's quite surprising to me that Montreal's metro system doesn't connect over to the airport.
These are such very different cities and really an odd pairing-but like I said-given the specific criteria mentioned by the OP (only a few factors really), it's not necessarily a complete walk for Montreal based on those-even if it certainly is based on other criteria being discussed and referenced in this thread.
The bagels are better than Brooklyn and hand sliced Montreal smoked meat is at the same level as NYC Jewish deli sandwiches. Plus poutine. Put on your fur coat in a city where nobody is going to throw a bucket of paint at it, slide the toque on your head, and enjoy the winter.
Avg high is Montreal is 10 degrees colder in January and it gets more snow than Cleveland, even with the Lake Effect.
Low wages in Montreal are a big problem. I've met plenty of highly educated French Canadians who come to the US for work, very few go in the other direction.
I mean, it is lower than in most major cities, but that is cause COL is lower here. I can't think of other major cities where you can rent a two-bedroom apartment in the downtown core for $1200-$1500 a month (or lower). When I attend business conferences, everyone mentions that Montreal is a Boston/Paris hybrid with the prices of Cleaveland. Even then, the average profession in MTL nets at least $60K, which goes far in MTL since COL is cheap. Also, even though taxes are much higher here, people are better off due to the social safety net. Another example is when I was working for the government, I had jobs in MTL and T.O and the salary was $60K a year in MTL, $80K in T.O. I lived more comfortably in MTL making $20K less than in T.O (until I found a higher paying job in T.O that is). Point is, the whole wage argument has many factors and even with MTL having lower wages, the average person gets by much better here than in other cities.
As for the weather, yeah it's slightly colder in MTL and we get about 20 inches more snow, but that's really not a huge difference. Winter is about 4 months long in each city (longer if you're a sissy and think 40-50F is "cold"). But even then, winter is about the same in both cities.
Public Transit: Montreal almost certainly wins this category going away-though, it's quite surprising to me that Montreal's metro system doesn't connect over to the airport.
Theres a commuter train. And the coming light rail (which is impressively big) will have a leg going to the airport.
If it came down to winch I would live in Id pick Cleveland easily. Cleveland's a great american city that has given absolutely everything it has to the greatest country on earth, and when I visited I loved the city.
Yeah, I know some have stuck up for Cleveland, but it seems that the overwhelming majority use Cleveland to get an easy win or put it down to make themselves feel better about their cities. It's like they're saying, "At least we're not Cleveland." I don't have anything against Montreal at all. In fact, I would like to visit there eventually and check it out. But, comparing Cleveland and Montreal is an unfair disadvantage.
Last edited by QCongress83216; 12-30-2019 at 10:28 AM..
Montreal duh. It's the best city in Canada by far.
Cleveland isn't as bad as most people perceive it as though. It does have some great architecture.
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