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I too think the that group should be banned. But I mean come on, cancel the whole thing because 10 people did it out of thousands?
The “Zulu” club in New Orleans is 1500 strong and they do blackface every year and refuse to change.
They all say the same thing. “It’s the costume”.
Yes, it's harsh, but the message isn't getting across. People have been losing their livelihoods for appearing in blackface -- often years and decades prior (obviously the current governor of Virginia isn't one of them, but ...). This stuff simply cannot be tolerated. As a Philadelphia taxpayer, I'm paying a significant sum to run the Mummer's Parade. Quite obviously, overall, its a strong net positive for the city. But like the saying (and song) goes: a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch ...
btw, I'd don't know what New Orleans is doing. I know Mardi Gras is the mother ship of all similar parades/celebrations; obviously MD's religious-based purpose in celebrating Fat Tuesday is different than the Mummers', but in terms of costumes and execution, they appear very similar. Unfortunately as a unique, rather bizarre-sort of Southern culture, New Orleans tolerates and even promotes antecedents of what most would, at the very least, consider racially insensitive symbols and practices. No, they shouldn't be let off the hook, just because ... it's unique. New Orleans... whatever. But I do know Philadelphia, a very much old North, Union/Yankee, progressive city, is a place where this absolutely should not be tolerated in the least.
Yes, it's harsh, but the message isn't getting across. People have been losing their livelihoods for appearing in blackface -- often years and decades prior (obviously the current governor of Virginia isn't one of them, but ...). This stuff simply cannot be tolerated. As a Philadelphia taxpayer, I'm paying a significant sum to run the Mummer's Parade. Quite obviously, overall, its a strong net positive for the city. But like the saying (and song) goes: a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch ...
btw, I'd don't know what New Orleans is doing. I know Mardi Gras is the mother ship of all similar parades/celebrations; obviously MD's religious-based purpose in celebrating Fat Tuesday is different than the Mummers', but in terms of costumes and execution, they appear very similar. Unfortunately as a unique, rather bizarre-sort of Southern culture, New Orleans tolerates and even promotes antecedents of what most would, at the very least, consider racially insensitive symbols and practices. No, they shouldn't be let off the hook, just because ... it's unique. New Orleans... whatever. But I do know Philadelphia, a very much old North, Union/Yankee, progressive city, is a place where this absolutely should not be tolerated in the least.
I share your attitude towards blackface, though I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to cancel the entire parade because one brigade keeps Not Getting It.
But I have something to say about Philadelphia's heritage on matters racial - it's more complex than your last sentence would lead one to believe. However, that would take things way OT for this thread. Perhaps we should start one on the Philadelphia forum?
I share your attitude towards blackface, though I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to cancel the entire parade because one brigade keeps Not Getting It.
But I have something to say about Philadelphia's heritage on matters racial - it's more complex than your last sentence would lead one to believe. However, that would take things way OT for this thread. Perhaps we should start one on the Philadelphia forum?
I agree, cancelling the parade may be overkill, but it sure would send a message: the bands and brigades would certainly police their members and policies on race in the future. (Ironically it was a black guy in blackface last year with a Jim Kenney impersonator on a leash).
... and yes, Philadelphia is a very southern-influenced northern town. During and after the Civil War, a strong cadre of Southern sympathizers attacked, slaughtered and generally reeked havoc on abolitionists and blacks trying to exercise their new freedom. Before the war, these forces burned down Pennsylvania Pennsylvania convention hall, about a week or so following its construction, because it hosted a meeting of abolitionists. The Phila fire department let the building burn and the mayor looked the other way... And of course, after the war, pioneering, heroic, underrated (in American history) Octavius Valentine Catto was savagely assassinated; gunned down like an wild animal on the street (in front of horrified horsecar riders on South Street near 9th) after Irish vigilantes decided to attack black Republican organizers, like Catto, who were working tirelessly to get African Americans to the polls on election day for their first sanctioned right to vote following the implementation of the 15th Amendment, granting Black citizens franchize, in Pennsylvania for the first time the year prior in 1870.
Philadelphia was both a hotbed of the more fair-minded Quakers -- at least they came to be by the Civil War -- as well as considerable Confederate influences.
I agree, cancelling the parade may be overkill, but it sure would send a message: the bands and brigades would certainly police their members and policies on race in the future. (Ironically it was a black guy in blackface last year with a Jim Kenney impersonator on a leash).
... and yes, Philadelphia is a not a southern-influenced northern town. During and after the Civil War, a strong cadre of Southern sympathizers attacked, slaughtered and generally reeked havoc on abolitionists and blacks trying to exercise their new freedom. Before the war, these forces burned down Pennsylvania Pennsylvania convention hall, about a week or so following its construction, because it hosted a meeting of abolitionists. The Phila fire department let the building burn and the mayor looked the other way... And of course, after the war, pioneering, heroic, underrated (in American history) Octavius Valentine Catto was savagely assassinated; gunned down like an wild animal on the street (in front of horrified horsecar riders on South Street near 9th) after Irish vigilantes decided to attack black Republican organizers, like Catto, who were working tirelessly to get African Americans to the polls on election day for their first sanctioned right to vote following the implementation of the 15th Amendment, granting Black citizens franchize, in Pennsylvania for the first time the year prior in 1870.
Philadelphia was both a hotbed of the more fair-minded Quakers -- at least they came to be by the Civil War -- as well as considerable Confederate influences.
I fixed that statement for you because your original statement was inaccurate and hyperbolic nonetheless. NYC had tumultuous racial incidents back in those times too so I guess New York city is a "southern-influenced northern town". Every northern city, whether it was Philly, New York or Boston, had their share of racist protesters or resistance in the civil war/immediate post civil war era. Thankfully, that crowd was by far in the minority compared to their border area and southern counterparts. Otherwise, I agree with acknowledging what happened back then, and also being sensitive and combating the negative racist undertones that you pointed out.
I fixed that statement for you because your original statement was inaccurate and hyperbolic nonetheless. NYC had tumultuous racial incidents back in those times too so I guess New York city is a "southern-influenced northern town". Every northern city, whether it was Philly, New York or Boston, had their share of racist protesters or resistance in the civil war/immediate post civil war era. Thankfully, that crowd was by far in the minority compared to their border area and southern counterparts. Otherwise, I agree with acknowledging what happened back then, and also being sensitive and combating the negative racist undertones that you pointed out.
Do you know what American medical school trained most of the South's doctors prior to the Civil War?
Maybe "Southern-influenced" isn't the right phrase, but I would say that the conflict over slavery played itself out more dramatically here in the years leading up to the Civil War (Pennsylvania Hall was burned to the ground in the mid-1850s) than it did in the cities to Philadelphia's north.
Never been to the Mummers or Tournament of Roses parades, though I’ve visited both cities. But which one city is better to be in — more fun, interesting, livelier, whatever—on New Year’s Day? And why?
Philadelphia. Because there’s a lot more to do after the parade than there is in Pasadena.
Do you know what American medical school trained most of the South's doctors prior to the Civil War?
Maybe "Southern-influenced" isn't the right phrase, but I would say that the conflict over slavery played itself out more dramatically here in the years leading up to the Civil War (Pennsylvania Hall was burned to the ground in the mid-1850s) than it did in the cities to Philadelphia's north.
I do know that Princeton was long-considered to be the Ivy League school with at least a few southern characteristics..
As for the original question, I would still take Pasadena, and neighboring Los Angeles. The temperature isn't that much of a factor since Philly's winters aren't especially cold, anyway. LA , with all that activity,all that diversity, along with that constant sunshine, and a million and one things to do, is going to win this..
I fixed that statement for you because your original statement was inaccurate and hyperbolic nonetheless. NYC had tumultuous racial incidents back in those times too so I guess New York city is a "southern-influenced northern town". Every northern city, whether it was Philly, New York or Boston, had their share of racist protesters or resistance in the civil war/immediate post civil war era. Thankfully, that crowd was by far in the minority compared to their border area and southern counterparts. Otherwise, I agree with acknowledging what happened back then, and also being sensitive and combating the negative racist undertones that you pointed out.
The statement was neither inaccurate or hyperbolic. If you read very carefully, the issue isn't about which cit is more racist than another. The issue is whether Philadelphia is, more than most Northern major cities, historically influenced by the South. No, it's not a Southern city, but it has those influence, and no matter how much you jump up and down denying it, doesn't change the fact.
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