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I don't think people are giving San Diego enough credit on here. I personally would place it above Minneapolis and Denver. Maybe even Detroit and Phoenix. It's not a big city vibe, but it packs a punch. And what it lacks in its downtown, it makes up for in neighborhoods/ districts all across the city. And the downtown is functional/ interesting too.
Pretty much none of these cities will enter Top 15 discussion unless there's some dramatic decline from one of the cities in this thread. The likelihood of that happening is almost none...
True but you never know how the criteria governing MSAs/CSAs might change in the near future.
In no order: Jacksonville Charlotte San Antonio Indy Pittsburgh >> Austin
In addition I would say the following are also more important than Austin
Orlando
Tampa
New Orleans
Salt Lake City
Honolulu
Las Vegas
Really Austin is a 25-35 city with its peers being
Portland
Oklahoma City
Little Rock
Nashville
Columbus
Kansas City
Cleveland
Indianapolis
Pittsburgh
Sacramento
San Antonio
Jacksonville
Cincinnati
Memphis
Tulsa
Albuquerque
By city limit population Austin is in the top 15 but for importance it is closer to its metro ranking and definitely not in the top 25.
I disagree with San Antonio though, it is not more important than Austin. Along with Pittsburgh, Indi and Jacksonville they are all peers. Charlotte out ranks Austin
Austin doesn't even anchor a state, heck it doesn't even anchor a portion of its state as is neighbor has been larger for its entire existence. Like Sacramento, Austin is out shadowed by multiple cities in its state.
In addition I would say the following are also more important than Austin
Orlando
Tampa
New Orleans
Salt Lake City
Honolulu
Las Vegas
Really Austin is a 25-35 city with its peers being
Portland
Oklahoma City
Little Rock
Nashville
Columbus
Kansas City
Cleveland
Indianapolis
Pittsburgh
Sacramento
San Antonio
Jacksonville
Cincinnati
Memphis
Tulsa
Albuquerque
By city limit population Austin is in the top 15 but for importance it is closer to its metro ranking and definitely not in the top 25.
I disagree with San Antonio though, it is not more important than Austin. Along with Pittsburgh, Indi and Jacksonville they are all peers. Charlotte out ranks Austin
Austin doesn't even anchor a state, heck it doesn't even anchor a portion of its state as is neighbor has been larger for its entire existence. Like Sacramento, Austin is out shadowed by multiple cities in its state.
One difference with Sac and Austin though, is that Sacramento is capital of the most powerful economy in the United States and one of the most powerful economies on the planet. I'm certainly not arguing for Sac's inclusion in this thread, but this gets brushed over somehow every time Sacramento is brought up; like, this same argument is used as a positive for Washington, but not even mentioned at all for Sacramento (obviously not arguing Sac is the caliber of DC as a city but this is a unique and distinct parallel between the two)...
I disagree with three or four of those cities that you stated are more important than Austin but regardless, none of those cities have the prestige to warrant inclusion in this thread anyway...
True but you never know how the criteria governing MSAs/CSAs might change in the near future.
True dat...
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaserbrad
I don't think people are giving San Diego enough credit on here. I personally would place it above Minneapolis and Denver. Maybe even Detroit and Phoenix. It's not a big city vibe, but it packs a punch. And what it lacks in its downtown, it makes up for in neighborhoods/ districts all across the city. And the downtown is functional/ interesting too.
IMO under rated.
Yeah I'm quite surprised so many people find some of these other cities greater than SD. Particularly MSP, Phx, Denver...
SD is being underrated and I think definitely has as strong a case as the three cities listed above...
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09
16. Detroit
17. San Diego
18. Baltimore
19. Charlotte
20. Tampa
So we can nip the next extended thread in the bud.
Lol you don't like these threads? Are you okay beating the favored 10 cities to death then, probably 75% of CvC threads includes one or more of the major 10 cities. Like every thread about those cities has been remixed to oblivion, all ten have been compared to each other innumerable times in many ways...
I mean, I'm still here after almost nine years so I don't have the biggest issue with it, you know what you get when you're coming here. I just find it odd to convey annoyance at any other group of cities being talked about, when the lifeblood of this board is basically only a handful of cities in a country that has more interesting cities of size than most nations...
Personally I think what separates Dallas is its superior livability factor, but that's my personal stance...
Moreover, I do think that over the years, this board has shown a consistency in that they don't quite feel Miami is Top 10. As you and others alluded to, I do think people believe its roughly in the same tier as the 6-10 cities, but when people have been forced to place said cities in some sort of order, Miami is the one that is more often in last place than the others. Nine years here, that's been a pretty consistent opinion for a long time...
For sure though, a country with as many cities as we have, being #11 (or 12) is hardly insulting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joakim3
Outside of Seattle's cooperate presence.... In what regard?
Again GDP is nice and dandy, but Miami is the American economic hub for all of Latin/South America and and a primer global international travel destination.. Seattle does throw around that type of intercontinental "weight" around yet.
I do agree... Seattle has definitely separated itself from its former peers at this point
Seattle doesn't have that level of intercontinental weight but I don't think you can underestimate the strength of its corporate climate. For sure that's enough of a reason to make an argument for it ahead of Miami...
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
7,409 posts, read 6,542,189 times
Reputation: 6677
I think what holds Miami and Dallas back somewhat in these polls are their lack of quality and quantity of universities—U of Miami is good, not great/top tier, in a few fields and has improved from its party school for spoiled brats / Mrs Degree reputation in the past and SMU is good—but neither of these schools will be confused for Duke, U Va, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory etc.
Both of these cities, however, have other tangibles—Dallas compensates for its lack of top universities with its varied corporate, and thus job/career opportunity, presence whereas Miami moves up a few notches from these poll rankings if the question becomes where would you rather live, as Resident pointed out. How many desirable, cosmopolitan, year round, warm weather ocean front cities are there in the country—2, 3?—hence, its fairly high COL. Biggest issue is whether or not your chosen career path (professional or entrepreneurial) pays above average wages. Miami is not the best choice for someone who earns median, or below median, income—another reason that holds it back for some/perhaps many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
Personally I think what separates Dallas is its superior livability factor, but that's my personal stance...
Moreover, I do think that over the years, this board has shown a consistency in that they don't quite feel Miami is Top 10. As you and others alluded to, I do think people believe its roughly in the same tier as the 6-10 cities, but when people have been forced to place said cities in some sort of order, Miami is the one that is more often in last place than the others. Nine years here, that's been a pretty consistent opinion for a long time...
For sure though, a country with as many cities as we have, being #11 (or 12) is hardly insulting...
Seattle doesn't have that level of intercontinental weight but I don't think you can underestimate the strength of its corporate climate. For sure that's enough of a reason to make an argument for it ahead of Miami...
Last edited by elchevere; 04-25-2020 at 08:30 AM..
Austin doesn't even anchor a state, heck it doesn't even anchor a portion of its state as is neighbor has been larger for its entire existence. Like Sacramento, Austin is out shadowed by multiple cities in its state.
Austin may share Texas with three other metros that are larger, but it has not been "outshadowed" by them at all. It has been outshining neighboring San Antonio for at least a decade with a bigger, faster-growing economy despite having a smaller metropolitan population (and it is on track to overtake San Antonio in the near future). Austin occupies its own economic niche in the state and and typically competes with other tech hubs and not other metros in Texas--and has been extremely successful in its efforts. It is regarded as having a livelier and more vibrant downtown than other Texas cities with a cool, hip, progressive vibe. Austin easily holds its own in Texas and doesn't fly under the radar like Sacramento at all.
I know people think Austin is overrated and overhyped and all that, but facts are facts and Austin's rapid ascent over the past 20-30 years or so simply can't be denied.
I think what holds Miami and Dallas back somewhat in these polls are their lack of quality and quantity of universities—U of Miami is good, not great, in a few fields and has improved from its party school for spoiled brats / Mrs Degree reputation in the past and SMU is good—but neither of these schools will be confused for Duke, U Va, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory etc.
Both of these cities, however, have other tangibles—Dallas compensates for its lack of top universities with its varied corporate, and thus job/career opportunity, presence whereas Miami moves up a few notches from these poll rankings if the question becomes where would you rather live, as Resident pointed out. How many desirable year round, warm weather ocean front cities are there in the country—2, 3?—hence, its fairly high COL. Biggest issue is whether or not your chosen career path (professional or entrepreneurial) pays above average wages. Miami is not the best choice for someone who earns median, or below median, income—another reason that holds it back for some/perhaps many.
The answer to where would you rather live would seem to be Miami on its surface, but the actual data supports more people choose Dallas. I think most people make informed decisions on where to live, they don't look at it in a vacuum of only warm weather and on the water, all the other characteristics and variables count, too...
I'm certainly not ignorant of the fact that many people would move to Miami if they wanted to, or if they could, but would more people really move to Miami than Dallas? Personally, Miami wouldn't even be the Florida city I'd choose first, add in the fact that since I don't move anywhere to go live in the suburbs (I enjoy city life), the fact that the city of Miami has the most rapidly declining black population in the country is alarming and enough to stay away. This is what happened to San Francisco and I have no desire to live in a city that is pushing black people out, and I have no desire to live in any city's suburbs...
Great point on the university presence though, although I think it's easily notable that Dallas' higher ed infrastructure is greater than Miami's. I actually don't find Miami and Dallas interchangeable at all but regardless, I definitely agree there isn't any great margin between the two...
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