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New Orleans is very distinct from the rest of Louisiana though. It's not really an extension of Cajun Country. New Orleans is it's own thing.
Yep, and this was especially true of the city early on. Given the fact that it grew to become the largest city in the old Confederate South and was among the largest in the nation for several decades, one can see how in several respects, NOLA is like other historically large cities outside the South which culturally diverged from the surrounding countryside in key ways.
Charlotte has all of those though things as well..of course Atlanta being bigger means more but Charlotte has all of those things especially politically and professional businesses. Where Atl trumps is in the number of Black schools and of course the black Hollywood aspect and the population difference. But Charlotte has a HEFTY Black presence all over the city in all circles. The city is also home to celebrities but of course Atl is another level..
Charlotte doesn't have the heft of Atlanta's Black institutions, nor can Charlotte's be legitimately described as simply scaled-down versions of those that exist in Atlanta. You may try and argue that Smith, Barber-Scotia, and Clinton are Charlotte's version of the AUC but nobody's taking that seriously. Atlanta has an HBCU medical school whereas Charlotte is currently establishing its first modern mainstream medical school. And there's simply nothing like Georgia State in Charlotte either. I'm not aware of any Black-owned banks or credit unions headquartered in Charlotte whereas a few are headquarted in Atlanta. Prominent Black civic organizations like Sigma Pi Phi, 100 Black Men of America, and 100 Black Women of America are headquarted in Atlanta which Charlotte has no answer for. Charlotte doesn't have its own Grady or Victor Hill. There aren't any versions of TI or Killer Mike in Charlotte. Beyond the city itself, there's nothing like south Fulton, Dekalb, or Clayton, or even Rockdale, Henry, Cobb, or Gwinnett. The entrepreneurial and political cultures of the two cities are very different seeing as though they were built upon two different foundations. Do you actually believe had Stacy Abrams been elected governor, she would govern in adversarial ways towards Atlanta as Pat McCrory did towards Charlotte as governor?
And Charlotte doesn't have a hefty Black presence all over the city; not even Atlanta has that. And Charlotte doesn't have pockets like Camp Creek whose standard middle-class retail chains were built to serve an existing predominantly Black middle class population. The 90%+ of patrons that are Black at Publix on any day in that area wasn't something that happened over time after successive waves of white flight; it's pretty much always been that way since it was built.
And now that the CIAA Tournament is now in Baltimore (although it will likely return to Charlotte soon), what events or sites attract a critical mass of Black visitors to Charlotte or places a national spotlight on Black Charlotte annually in the vein of MLK Day, Bronner Brothers Hair Show, AUC homecomings, ATL Greek Picnic, Atlanta Black Pride, ONE Music Festival, Battle of the Bands, HBCU/SWAC championships, etc? And when it comes to Black new residents, Charlotte's appeal is their inclusion in local mainstream society as Black Americans and not within a parallel predominantly Black society as is the case with Atlanta since that critical mass doesn't exist in the Charlotte metro area.
But we're talking about the Black community, specifically. What would you say are the concrete, substantive cultural differences between the Black community of New Orleans and that of Lake Charles?
I'm definitely talking about the Black community in Cajun Country/ Acadiana though. But you ask what's the concrete substantive cultural differences between Black New Orleans and Black Lake Charles?
Black New Orleans: Second line, Mardi Gras Indians, birthplace of Jazz, brass bands, Bounce music, the Krew of Zulus, the Skull gangs, Creoles of Color "Black Creoles" are culturally distinct but are more assimilated into the dominant local Black American culture as well.
Black Lake Charles: More influenced and culturally similar to Houston and Southeast Texas Black culture than New Orleans Black culture, an even more assimilated Creole culture due to more Black Americans coming from "Anglo- Plantation" ancestry. More Blues and Zydeco than Jazz, brass bands and bounce music.
I'll also add 2 more regions in South Louisiana alone just to showcase how distinct these regional Black communities are from one another.
Lafayette/ Rural Acadiana area: Probably has the highest Creoles of Color in the state of Louisiana if not just as much as New Orleans. Unlike New Orleans you'll run into more Creoles of Color in Lafayette and the rural towns in Acadiana aka Cajun Country who see themselves as a separate ethnic group neither Black or White. You'll find more Creole French speakers here than in any other region in Louisiana. Birthplace of Zydeco, heavy on the Zydeco. Black New Orleans cuisine is much more Creole while Black Lafayette and Rural Acadiana is Creole w/ some Cajun influences.
Black Baton Rogue: More Deep South African American culture with Black Creoles having a smaller influence on the local Black culture when compared to the Deep South African American culture. Not influenced by Texas or Mississippi but pretty much feels like it's own thing just not as culturally distinct as New Orleans.
These 4 regions are all South of I-10, North Louisiana is a whole other story. But yeah Black New Orleans is just home to so many things you can't find anywhere else in the state or in the country. And even if you can find it outside of New Orleans it's still home to those particular cultural traditions.
Charlotte doesn't have the heft of Atlanta's Black institutions, nor can Charlotte's be legitimately described as simply scaled-down versions of those that exist in Atlanta. You may try and argue that Smith, Barber-Scotia, and Clinton are Charlotte's version of the AUC but nobody's taking that seriously. Atlanta has an HBCU medical school whereas Charlotte is currently establishing its first modern mainstream medical school. And there's simply nothing like Georgia State in Charlotte either. I'm not aware of any Black-owned banks or credit unions headquartered in Charlotte whereas a few are headquarted in Atlanta. Prominent Black civic organizations like Sigma Pi Phi, 100 Black Men of America, and 100 Black Women of America are headquarted in Atlanta which Charlotte has no answer for. Charlotte doesn't have its own Grady or Victor Hill. There aren't any versions of TI or Killer Mike in Charlotte. Beyond the city itself, there's nothing like south Fulton, Dekalb, or Clayton, or even Rockdale, Henry, Cobb, or Gwinnett. The entrepreneurial and political cultures of the two cities are very different seeing as though they were built upon two different foundations. Do you actually believe had Stacy Abrams been elected governor, she would govern in adversarial ways towards Atlanta as Pat McCrory did towards Charlotte as governor?
And Charlotte doesn't have a hefty Black presence all over the city; not even Atlanta has that. And Charlotte doesn't have pockets like Camp Creek whose standard middle-class retail chains were built to serve an existing predominantly Black middle class population. The 90%+ of patrons that are Black at Publix on any day in that area wasn't something that happened over time after successive waves of white flight; it's pretty much always been that way since it was built.
And now that the CIAA Tournament is now in Baltimore (although it will likely return to Charlotte soon), what events or sites attract a critical mass of Black visitors to Charlotte or places a national spotlight on Black Charlotte annually in the vein of MLK Day, Bronner Brothers Hair Show, AUC homecomings, ATL Greek Picnic, Atlanta Black Pride, ONE Music Festival, Battle of the Bands, HBCU/SWAC championships, etc? And when it comes to Black new residents, Charlotte's appeal is their inclusion in local mainstream society as Black Americans and not within a parallel predominantly Black society as is the case with Atlanta since that critical mass doesn't exist in the Charlotte metro area.
You do realize charlotte has a black Mayor, black police chief, black city manager, black fire chief, and black county manager, and black Sherriff,etc. You dont know anything about Charlotte. Even
though the tournament is gone Charlotte is the headquarters for the CIAA and the annual football game between my alma mater NC A& T and NCCU. You do realize the AKA regional conference was just here and that the National Omega Conference was just here last year as well. Charlotte has the soulfood festival and also has the annual hbcu picnic and the annual Greek Picnic. You do realize Charlotte has its own Battle.of the Bands and does have a very large chapter of 100 black men and matter of course host hair shows and black fashion shows as well. Sir I NEVER said that Charlotte was on the level of ATL when it came to celebrities but don't act like none live here such as Fantasia, Anthony Hamilon, Jodeci, Stephanie.Milss, Da Baby, etc... Yes Charlotte has black owned banks( Mechanic and Farmers,etc..) Charlotte has Biddleville, Sevierville, West Blvd, North Charlotte, Beartis Ford,etc when it comes to Black neighborhoods. JCSU is in Wesley Heights which is a stones throw from Uptown and is heavily entrenched in the west side and was also the home of the very first hbcu football game. Also Charlotte has ALOT of black visitors from ATL who come up for shows and to party as well and the same goes for Charlotteans going to AtL. There is a big back and forth.
And this is just a few events. I didn't even post about the House of Prayer Convocation or the MLK Day Parade,etc... I'm not gonna keep posting because there are so many more. Charlotte is very much influenced by African Americans and is repeatedly a top ten place for African Americans. You really don't know as much about Charlotte as you think. Please stop downplaying the city.
Black Lake Charles: More influenced and culturally similar to Houston and Southeast Texas Black culture than New Orleans Black culture, an even more assimilated Creole culture due to more Black Americans coming from "Anglo- Plantation" ancestry. More Blues and Zydeco than Jazz, brass bands and bounce
Black Lake Charles is sort of 50% Houston, 50% Cajun. The stereotypical Cajun is found mostly in the Lafayette area. But is loudest in some of the surrounding towns such as Crowley, Opelousas etc. the latter is so easily distinguishable
Pretty unique. You're not going to find this anywhere else in the U.S. This isn't something like mumbo sauce that maybe goes back to the 80s. Here you have a grandmother teaching her granddaughters traditions that have been passed down for several generations. That's true culture.
Attitude: reserved, judging, sarcastic/witty, very blunt.
There is a website dedicated started by a research group at Indiana University and Dartmouth College dedicated to the intricacies of how Black Bostonians Speak: https://blackbostonspeaks.netlify.app/
Black Boston Speaks is a linguistics project led by Assistant Professor Monica Nesbitt (Indiana University), a Brockton, MA native. Our scholarship centers diverse Black voices in an effort to dispel monolithic narratives about Black lives and languages.
This website showcases the richly diverse dialects of the Black community in Eastern Massachusetts, a community that was understudied in linguistic research of New England. For this project, Black students conducted hour-long interviews with community members in 2020 and 2021. What began in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic led to our team embracing technology to conduct Zoom interviews and remain connected with the community via Instagram. The intersection of technology and sociolinguistics has served as a pathway for both understanding and connection throughout our research journey.
Here we display a collection of dialect maps, community reports, and selected audio recordings. The reports provide some background about the Boston area Black community. The maps and audio recordings highlight the community's linguistic and cultural richness (some example maps are below). You can find these resources by clicking through the tabs above.
We hope you enjoy this celebration of Black lives as much as we do.
They do cool little research things like this
Previous Findings: The PIN/PEN merger refers to when people rhyme the words “pen” and “pin,” usually pronouncing the “eh” vowel in “pen” more like the short “ih” vowel in “pin.” This usually happens in words which end in “m” or “n.” Rhyming PIN and PEN is a well documented feature of African American Language (AAL) (Jones, 2020; Coggshall & Becker). It is also associated with dialects of Southern White Vernacular English (Coggshall & Becker, 2010).
However, AAL speakers in New York City and Northern California typically do not rhyme PIN and PEN (Jones 2020). Black speakers of AAL in Eastern New England are also not expected to rhyme PIN/PEN (Austen, 2020).
Our Findings: We would not expect Black speakers in our Boston sample to rhyme PIN and PEN. When we look at our results, 29.76% of speakers did not rhyme PIN and PEN. Another 48.81% of speakers pronounced PIN and PEN almost completely distinctly. However, 8.33% of respondents rhymed PIN and PEN. This is to be expected, as Black speakers from New England may avoid rhyming PIN/PEN since it is often associated with Southern varieties of English (Coggshall & Becker, 2010).
and this
The majority of our speakers from the Black Boston community (n=45) were the least r-less, dropping /r/ from below 17.85% of the time up to 33% of the time. Even our most r-less speakers (n=3) still only dropped /r/ just over 56% of the time. This is in contrast to the high rates of r-lessness we see in AAL in New York City; here in Boston, the Black speakers in our sample are not as r-less.
So they do a pretty good jobs at finding our similarities with NYers and differences. It also allows you to see differences in accent and lexicon by town within black populations in various places in Eastern MA. And contrasting it to the white population
Marry-Mary-Merry
In a 2003 survey, 49% of Massachusetts speakers stated that they pronounce these words differently (Harvard Dialect Survey: Massachusetts Results). Speakers further away from Boston in Western Massachusetts and New Hampshire tend to instead rhyme these words to distance themselves from urban Boston culture (Labov, et al., 2006; Nagy, 2001). A study of African American and Caribbean American speakers in the Boston area (Browne & Stanford 2018) showed that Black speakers in the region also followed the larger Eastern Massachusetts trend: they did not rhyme MARY and MARRY.
You do realize charlotte has a black Mayor, black police chief, black city manager, black fire chief, and black county manager, and black Sherriff,etc. You dont know anything about Charlotte. Even
though the tournament is gone Charlotte is the headquarters for the CIAA and the annual football game between my alma mater NC A& T and NCCU. You do realize the AKA regional conference was just here and that the National Omega Conference was just here last year as well. Charlotte has the soulfood festival and also has the annual hbcu picnic and the annual Greek Picnic. You do realize Charlotte has its own Battle.of the Bands and does have a very large chapter of 100 black men and matter of course host hair shows and black fashion shows as well. Sir I NEVER said that Charlotte was on the level of ATL when it came to celebrities but don't act like none live here such as Fantasia, Anthony Hamilon, Jodeci, Stephanie.Milss, Da Baby, etc... Yes Charlotte has black owned banks( Mechanic and Farmers,etc..) Charlotte has Biddleville, Sevierville, West Blvd, North Charlotte, Beartis Ford,etc when it comes to Black neighborhoods. JCSU is in Wesley Heights which is a stones throw from Uptown and is heavily entrenched in the west side and was also the home of the very first hbcu football game. Also Charlotte has ALOT of black visitors from ATL who come up for shows and to party as well and the same goes for Charlotteans going to AtL. There is a big back and forth.
And this is just a few events. I didn't even post about the House of Prayer Convocation or the MLK Day Parade,etc... I'm not gonna keep posting because there are so many more. Charlotte is very much influenced by African Americans and is repeatedly a top ten place for African Americans. You really don't know as much about Charlotte as you think. Please stop downplaying the city.
I'm sorry but there's no way I'm continuing this back-and-forth with you because of your reading comprehension issues. It's beyond exhausting at this point. You think I'm arguing that Charlotte doesn't have "Black stuff" when my own fraternity's regional convention was there a few weeks ago, and I brought UHOP convocation well before you did.
I honestly think you have no idea what the topic of this thread is even all about.
I'm sorry but there's no way I'm continuing this back-and-forth with you because of your reading comprehension issues. It's beyond exhausting at this point. You think I'm arguing that Charlotte doesn't have "Black stuff" when my own fraternity's regional convention was there a few weeks ago, and I brought UHOP convocation well before you did.
I honestly think you have no idea what the topic of this thread is even all about.
No you just got called out on your b.s. You stated comments saying what Charlote didn't have and I replied with links showing otherwise. The topic of the thread is black culture and I have plainly displayed that. By the way you don't have to be demeaning in your responses. I'm a hbcu graduate, I can definitely read.
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