More Southern Influence: Chicago or Philadelphia?

[NoHyping]

Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East

While Philadelphia is geographically closer to the U.S. South than Chicago, there is not a single person in Philadelphia or Pennsylvania, for that matter, who would consider himself or herself a Southerner because most families in this region are not historically connected to the U.S. South. The vast majority of people who reside in southeastern Pennsylvania area are descendants of European immigrants who arrived at Philadelphia in the late 19th and early 20th centuries or English colonial settlers who arrived at Philadelphia in the 17th and 18th centuries and have always lived in Pennsylvania. On the other hand, Chicago was largely populated by Southern blacks and whites who migrated northward from the Mississippi Delta region in the first half of the 20th century. Of course, Philadelphia received an equally high number of Southern émigrés as Chicago during the Great Migration; however, most of the Southern émigrés in Philadelphia were black. Similar to Cincinnati, Detroit and Indianapolis, Chicago received a lot of Southern whites, in addition to Southern blacks, and therein lies a major cultural disparity between the two cities as it relates to "Southerness."

Found it interesting and since you posted no link... I found this one.

https://www.newcity.com/2012/06/21/h...hese%20changes.

From Link.
- records show that while the 1940's, 50's and 60's saw as many as 400,000 African-Americans migrate to Chicago from Deep South states like Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia,
- an estimated 70,000 whites also settled in Chicago after the Korean War.
- These migrants came from the Mid-South, the mountainous regions of states like North Carolina, Kentucky, Eastern Tennessee and West Virginia..
- The 'hillbilly' presence overlapped Uptown, probably ranging from Sheridan on the east and Ashland on the west and Addison to the south and Foster to the north, says Patrick Butler, who covered the area for the Lerner Newspapers during the sixties, seventies and eighties.
- They also had concentrations in Lincoln Park, Lakeview and the Bowmanville (part of Lincoln Square) neighborhoods.
- They moved North because they were already practically living in poverty when the jobs in the coal mines began drying up, and word got out that they could find better paying jobs in Chicago.
- Just as they migrated North over a number of years, the exodus of the Southern whites from Chicago was gradual. Along with the decline in low-skilled jobs, the main reason for the exodus was urban renewal by gentrification.
- Rents went up and the hill folk either moved back South or into Uptown, which remained the last bastion for the Southern migrants.
- Due to immigration restrictions in the 1920's, personnel managers in Chicago encouraged working-class migrants from the Upland South to fill those jobs.

Interesting, In the link these Appalachians are described as a wild bunch with reputations. The neigborhoods they settled are North of downtown Chicago along the North Shores of Lake Michigan.... are today some of the most valued neighborhoods in the city. Uptown mentioned as the last bastion they remained.

Another Link on Uptown Chicago neighborhood,

https://www.wbez.org/stories/uptowns...7-14c4f614f424

from link.
- Hillbilly Heaven. That was a common nickname for Chicago’s Uptown neighborhood in the 1950s and 1960s.
- For about 20-years, the neighborhood, which sits between Lakeview and Rogers Park, was locally famous for being home to thousands of white Southern migrants, many of whom came from the Appalachian region.
- while many migrants lived in other neighborhoods on the North Side,
- Uptown had the greatest concentration of Southerners and it was where the poorest members of that community lived.
- The Southern influence stuck around through the ‘70s, but by the ‘90s, it was difficult to find many Southerners in Uptown.

Uptown was not where I would have been heading to when I lived in Chicago many miles west of that neighborhood on another side of the city still North side. Seems Link says many actually left Chicago. Rather then find themselves welcome in other White North side neighborhoods it seems.... 70,000 was not tiny. Still they ultimately did more leaving the city then disperse though it over the decades.

Though I came from Northern Appalachia to Chicago from PA having family in Chicago. I knew more people that were of Polish, Ukrainian, Italian and Greek origins and never can say I met those who came from Southern Appalachia. Perhaps as links say many eventually left Chicago. Still that departure would have been still in that stage. I just did not live in the neighborhoods the links describe as their enclaves.

The Wrigley Field area of Lakeview I did know then. Definitely a Blue Color vibe yet. Just no hint to me of being Southern even then .... and Uptown would have been further North then I would have wondered over Wrigleyville to downtown areas if I traveled from the Northwest side.


STILL ALTHOUGH 70,000 White Appalachian folk migrating and ending up on Chicago's North Shore neighborhoods. Is nothing like Eastern and Southern European immigrants and African-Americans and the huge Latino push that created a Chicago that is 1/3 Latino now.....
CLEARLY, THE LINKS NOTE THAT MANY ENDED UP LEAVING CHICAGO WHEN DISPLACED OVER MOVING TO OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS ON THE NORTHSIDE. Interesting though as something I DID NOT KNOW OF TILL the above poster posted on it.....

I would think in the EAST. Pittsburgh and Ohio cities would have had a LARGE influx of these mid-South Appalachian folk. Pittsburgh clearly you read of that migration......

[AshbyQuin]

Originally Posted by Lenses & Lights.

It originated in " Memphis?" When? Because I clearly remember this word coming out in and around 1977. I did not know people were saying it in Tennessee during that time.

I know that New York was saying " Joint", and Philly transitioned to the word Jawn. The part about anywhere south, or anywhere else as matter of fact is a new revelation to me.

I can't find the exact year "junt" was originated, but I'm guessing it predates 'jawn' and 'joint' since most black culture has southern influence. DC had "jont" back in the day, and Baltimore still says "Jawn" to a lesser degree.

The top definitions for both words on Urban Dictionary.

junt
could mean almost anything; a junt is like a noun it is a person, place, thing, or idea. Junt is massively used in Memphis and surrounding areas;

Jawn
Philly slang for a person, place, or thing (Jawn).

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by AshbyQuin

I can't find the exact year "junt" was originated, but I'm guessing it predates 'jawn' and 'joint' since most black culture has southern influence. DC had "jont" back in the day, and Baltimore still says "Jawn" to a lesser degree.

The top definitions for both words on Urban Dictionary.

junt
could mean almost anything; a junt is like a noun it is a person, place, thing, or idea. Junt is massively used in Memphis and surrounding areas;

Jawn
Philly slang for a person, place, or thing (Jawn).

People in Baltimore don't say "Jawn," "junt," or any other iteration of the word.

[AshbyQuin]

Originally Posted by KodeBlue

People in Baltimore don't say "Jawn," "junt," or any other iteration of the word.

I explicity stated "junt" is Memphis. And folks in Bmore definitely say Jawn, just like the DMV used to say "jont". "Irking" "Geekin" "Ard" "Bet" "Bid" are all slang words used in Bmore and Philly. There's plenty more, however, I wrote those off the top of my head... You may not want to admit it, but there's a large Baltimore influence in Philly within the younger generation. 990's, Addidas pants, NikePolo-tshirts, Milano, LV, ect; Philly wasn't wearing any of that 10 years ago yet it was already popular in Baltimore and the DMV. I don't think I need to explain the dirt bike culture within both cities- heck, Meek just made a new movie "Charm City Kings" that's centered around bikelife culture in Bmore and he has 2 Baltimore rappers on dreamchasers. Club music, that's also self explanatory, it's emerging in popularity again here after it died down for several years. There's definitely more differences than similarities, but in terms of influence/similarities currently amongst younger ages in Philly, I'd put Baltimore over NY, and I honestly don't care wether you like that or not or are aware of it.


So yes, I realized I inadvertently answered OPs question. Philly definitely has southern influence if you classify Baltimore as southern.

[KodeBlue]

Originally Posted by AshbyQuin

I explicity stated "junt" is Memphis. And folks in Bmore definitely say Jawn, just like the DMV used to say "jont". "Irking" "Geekin" "Ard" "Bet" "Bid" are all slang words used in Bmore and Philly. There's plenty more, however, I wrote those off the top of my head... You may not want to admit it, but there's a large Baltimore influence in Philly within the younger generation. 990's, Addidas pants, NikePolo-tshirts, Milano, LV, ect; Philly wasn't wearing any of that 10 years ago yet it was already popular in Baltimore and the DMV. I don't think I need to explain the dirt bike culture within both cities- heck, Meek just made a new movie "Charm City Kings" that's centered around bikelife culture in Bmore and he has 2 Baltimore rappers on dreamchasers. Club music, that's also self explanatory, it's emerging in popularity again here after it died down for several years. There's definitely more differences than similarities, but in terms of influence/similarities currently amongst younger ages in Philly, I'd put Baltimore over NY, and I honestly don't care wether you like that or not or are aware of it.


So yes, I realized I inadvertently answered OPs question. Philly definitely has southern influence if you classify Baltimore as southern.

I actually agree with your post. I've stated before that Baltimore has a big influence on Philly. I think people refuse to wrap their heads around the fact. NYC isn't nearly as influential as it once was now that the south has taken over.

[DC's Finest]

Originally Posted by AshbyQuin

I explicity stated "junt" is Memphis. And folks in Bmore definitely say Jawn, just like the DMV used to say "jont". "Irking" "Geekin" "Ard" "Bet" "Bid" are all slang words used in Bmore and Philly. There's plenty more, however, I wrote those off the top of my head... You may not want to admit it, but there's a large Baltimore influence in Philly within the younger generation. 990's, Addidas pants, NikePolo-tshirts, Milano, LV, ect; Philly wasn't wearing any of that 10 years ago yet it was already popular in Baltimore and the DMV. I don't think I need to explain the dirt bike culture within both cities- heck, Meek just made a new movie "Charm City Kings" that's centered around bikelife culture in Bmore and he has 2 Baltimore rappers on dreamchasers. Club music, that's also self explanatory, it's emerging in popularity again here after it died down for several years. There's definitely more differences than similarities, but in terms of influence/similarities currently amongst younger ages in Philly, I'd put Baltimore over NY, and I honestly don't care wether you like that or not or are aware of it.


So yes, I realized I inadvertently answered OPs question. Philly definitely has southern influence if you classify Baltimore as southern.

I need to correct you on something. Since the 80's, 990's has always been a DC thing. Baltimore and other cities hopped on later.