Top 25 downtowns in the U.S. (difference, living, comparison, place)

[toughguy]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

You (D-town 720) were the one who said Seattle had less than 15,000 people living in its downtown in an older thread titled "http://www.city-data.com/forum/denve...a-here-19.html" on the Denver Forum.

You wrote:

Here's an excerpt from the link you provided: "This urban lifestyle is an acquired taste and not meant for everybody. Compared to Vancouver, B.C., where 50,000 people live downtown, less than 15,000 people choose to live in downtown Seattle. Residents within the core -- framed by Stewart Street, Interstate 5, James Street and the waterfront -- number less than 2,500 people."

OK lets get more recent stats than when that piece was ran - 1997. Seattle has gone through 2 building booms since that article was penned. Vancouver BC now has close to 100,000 living in the downtown peninsula, and depending on what you consider "downtown", Seattle has closer to 50k. I haven't even mentioned that there are many different definitions of "downtown", and getting apples to apples comparisons is difficult.
I don't think you have an informed position.

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by fashionguy

I don't know about Seattle. Because you said downtown Milwaukee has over 20000 residents, I looked at the map and found the 53202 zip code as you pointed out. I would say this zip code covers too large an area to be called downtown. It includes the lower east side and the historic third ward, which in my opion look very suburban. It is just a large zip code.

The zip code map: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Zip Code Boundary Map (WI)

If you go to google map and use street view, the downtown core of Milwaukee is very small. Either you go north or south within this zip code, you see it covers lots of wasteland and detached houses.

I would be more inclined to believe that a small part of 53203 may also be called downtown, but really only a very small portion of 53202 can be regarded as downtown.

First of all, you don't live here so don't tell me what is considered Downtown Milwaukee. 53203 is known as either Kilbourntown or Westown and is roughly one-half of the CBD. 53202 is divided between Juneautown aka Easttown (the other half of the CBD), The Historic Third Ward, Yankee Hill, and the Lower East Side. With the exception of the Lower East Side, both Yankee Hill and the Third Ward are considered part of Downtown Milwaukee but not part of the CBD.



Historic Third Ward


Yankee Hill


Lower East Side


Brady Street

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by toughguy

OK lets get more recent stats than when that piece was ran - 1997. Seattle has gone through 2 building booms since that article was penned. Vancouver BC now has close to 100,000 living in the downtown peninsula, and depending on what you consider "downtown", Seattle has closer to 50k. I haven't even mentioned that there are many different definitions of "downtown", and getting apples to apples comparisons is difficult.
I don't think you have an informed position.

Fair enough.

[fashionguy]

Well if what I saw on google maps can be considered downtown, I don't think Milwaukee downtown means anything at all. You posted some nice pics here, but anybody can go to google map and use street view. Plus what you post here except Yankee hill are hardly downtown either. More like some second centers, like uptown in other cities. And the areas around them are certainly suburban level. I saw vast discontinuities in development, and yet they are all covered by the 53202 zip code.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

First of all, you don't live here so don't tell me what is considered Downtown Milwaukee. 53203 is known as either Kilbourntown or Westown and is roughly one-half of the CBD. 53202 is divided between Juneautown aka Easttown (the other half of the CBD), The Historic Third Ward, Yankee Hill, and the Lower East Side. With the exception of the Lower East Side, both Yankee Hill and the Third Ward are considered part of Downtown Milwaukee but not part of the CBD.

As far as looking suburban, you must be on crack.

Historic Third Ward


Milwaukee Public Market


Yankee Hill


Lower East Side


Brady Street

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by fashionguy

Well if what I saw on google maps can be considered downtown, I don't think Milwaukee downtown means anything at all. You posted some nice pics here, but anybody can go to google map and use street view.

I still don't understand how can you say Milwaukee looks suburban? Did you grow up in Hong Kong or something?

[DgoNative]

Here you go, I just found this info on Seattle's downtown:

2008 State of Downtown Highlights

The Downtown Seattle Association hosted its annual State of Downtown event last week providing an overview of downtown commerce, development and livability issues. Downtown housing highlights include:

Approximately 13% of Seattle’s housing units, or 37,320 units, are located in the downtown area.
The number of residents increased nominally to 54,773 people. However, the number of children living downtown increased to 2,814, about 100 more than reported for the prior year.
16% of downtown units are owner occupied, 84% are rentals, unchanged from the prior year.
Since 1990, population grew by 61.1% compared to 12.7% for Seattle as a whole.
The average household income rose to 3.5% to $53,294 with a per capita income of $34,472.
39% of residents over 25 years of age hold a bachelors degree.
Interestingly, there was a drop in the number of residents under 35 years of age, from 41% to 39% of all downtown residents. The average age is 43 years.
There are approximately 5,700 new residential units currently under construction or permitted.
Subsidized housing makes up 26% of all housing units in the downtown area.
Other downtown tidbits:

The number of coffee shops increased 2.9% in the past year to 207.
231,532 employees, or 49.2% of all employees in Seattle, work in downtown, down slightly from the prior year.
44.4% of Puget Sound’s office market is located downtown.
Over $1.1 billion in development projects were completed in 2007, up 44% from the prior year. Another $3 billion worth are currently under construction.
The amount of open space and parks expanded by 38% from 42 acres to 58 acres.
DSA reports that the number of tourists, entertainment seekers, conventioneers and sporting event attendees stood at over 18 million people.
190 cruise ship vessel calls comprising over 781,000 boardings were experienced in 2007. The cruise ship industry generated $268 million in revenue and contributed $6.7 million in local & state taxes.
Tags: Downtown Seattle, Seattle

Here is the website where I found the info: Seattle Housing Buzz » Downtown Seattle (http://seattlehousingbuzz.com/category/downtown-seattle - broken link)

The only question I have is, they don't define what they mean by downtown. Is it strictly downtown? From the water up to seventh or eighth? Or is it including Lower Queen Anne, Belltown, Capitol Hill and First Hill? I don't think it is including a majority of these neighborhoods, or else that residential population number would be a lot higher.

As for Milwaukee, I found that there were less than 16,500 residents living in downtown in 2000. Here is where I found that info: http://legistar.milwaukee.gov/Attach...943785094c.PDF
The last page has the population totals.

[K.O.N.Y]

milwaukee look like the bronx in that second pic

[fashionguy]

Let's be honest the people living in the apartment building in the first picture attached here are not living IN downtown. And, nearly every mid-sized city has areas that look like suburbs. The second picture is what I call suburban looking. I can't be convinced whatsoever these people are living in downtown. Brady street is the corridor of the area around it, and the rest are just like this. Let me remind you suburbs have their business corridors too. I can find more sparce areas within this zip code but I think few people live there anyway so they don't contribute to the 20000 population so there you go.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I still don't understand how can you say Milwaukee looks suburban? Did you grow up in Hong Kong or something?

[EastSideMKE]

Milwaukee's downtown population was 16,359 back in 2000. Do you have any idea how many condo developments have been built since then?

Grand letdown: Downtown retail decline hampers area businesses - The Business Journal of Milwaukee:
This article ran in the Business Journal of Milwaukee back in 2008 and estimates the downtown population to be 25,000.

[D-town 720]

[quote=jjacobeclark;9146358]You (D-town 720) were the one who said Seattle had less than 15,000 people living in its downtown in an older thread titled "http://www.city-data.com/forum/denve...a-here-19.html" on the Denver Forum.


Nice you take a post out of context. Less then 15k in Seattle's CBD but its city center or downtown AREA has 55k. I have said this to you before but you seem to not undestand the distinction between a CBD and a downtown area. Some cities that are smaller (Milwaukee etc) dont have a different CBD from a downtown...

Your 20k figure of Milwaukee is from you listing a zip code in its downtown which may or may not be its CBD (does it even really have one???).

So please show us a link where Milwaukee has more residents living downtown then Seattle.